Jazz to Westjet

50'minimums · Post by **50'minimums** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:15 pm

How fast are people getting scooped from Jazz by Westjet. If someone wanted to work for Westjet, would it be easy to get there through Jazz.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:36 pm

guys are leaving from Jazz to WJ in as little time as 6 months. With around 400 pilots still going to be hired between now and 2010, it would be a good move.

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:51 pm

When I got hired at Jazz, it only took about 2 weeks and I received a bottle of wine and a letter of congratulations from Westjet with "Hope to see you soon" written inside.
Around the same time, Air Canada was printing up my PFO letter, just in case.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:50 am

LMAO!

flyinphil · Post by **flyinphil** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:13 am

KAG wrote:guys are leaving from Jazz to WJ in as little time as 6 months. With around 400 pilots still going to be hired between now and 2010, it would be a good move.

...and employers are the bad guys when they institute training bonds..

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:31 am

flyinphil wrote:
KAG wrote:guys are leaving from Jazz to WJ in as little time as 6 months. With around 400 pilots still going to be hired between now and 2010, it would be a good move.
...and employers are the bad guys when they institute training bonds..

No, it's pilots who won't stand up for themselves and make a move when the company decides to pay poor, or change the working conditions, ETC.

While I agree with you in most cases about sticking to your word, and treating the employer as you would want to be treated, in the case of Jazz they have set themselves up to be a spring board to bigger and better. If they were truely concerned with this issue, they would do something proactive about it, which there not.

flyinphil · Post by **flyinphil** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:50 am

KAG wrote:
flyinphil wrote:
KAG wrote:guys are leaving from Jazz to WJ in as little time as 6 months. With around 400 pilots still going to be hired between now and 2010, it would be a good move.
...and employers are the bad guys when they institute training bonds..

No, it's pilots who won't stand up for themselves and make a move when the company decides to pay poor, or change the working conditions, ETC.

While I agree with you in most cases about sticking to your word, and treating the employer as you would want to be treated, in the case of Jazz they have set themselves up to be a spring board to bigger and better. If they were truely concerned with this issue, they would do something proactive about it, which there not.

Actually KAG, I would agree wholeheartedly with you if the company had cut your pay during your tenure. Had that been the case, then perhaps the job would have changed to the point where people would feel the way you do.

For those flipping companies in six months, I totally disagree. They knew the salary structure, benefits and working conditions when they accepted the position at Jazz.

I am afraid loyalty and a handshake is a thing of the past.

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:03 am

flyinphil wrote:
KAG wrote:
flyinphil wrote: ...and employers are the bad guys when they institute training bonds..

I am afraid loyalty and a handshake is a thing of the past.

That is a 2 way street.

When jobs are nowhere to be had employers have and will continue to change the "rules of the game" after the handshake. I had previous employers go back on their word, change salary structure, change work conditions because they knew there was nowhere else for their digruntled employees to go.

Make hay while the sunshines. Neither the the employee nor employer can be true to their word and take the easy way out by claiming that "Business decisions" shouldn't be taken personally... but don't worry, this current boom shall fizzle one day and the employers will once again dictate the conditions and enforce bonds.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:18 pm

For those flipping companies in six months, I totally disagree. They knew the salary structure, benefits and working conditions when they accepted the position at Jazz.

Well said.

Old fella · Post by **Old fella** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:31 pm

O/K……. I’ll bite. Is JAZZ that bad of a place to work as a flight crew member? I have paid my two bits to fly on them occasionally and was treated well, airplanes are clean, coffee is good and staff friendly enough for the most part and my luggage arrives with me. What do you want – jam on it?
Incidentally my significant better half(she) is flying out on Jazz to CYYZ and points in the US of A within the next few days and she likes Jazz because that “little airplane with the engines behind “ is cute and is “comfy and cozy”. I don’t have the heart to tell her what I think of it least I get cut-off from my “quarterly /birthday/anniversary” usual!!!!

F-16 · Post by **F-16** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:44 pm

There is and always be the element of self-preservation and self-interest. There has to be. This is aviation.

However, some of these people were singing a different tune about loyalty/committment a year or two ago, does the fact that it's a different level change things?

Find the job you want, and when you get there have fun & focus on other areas of life. Life's too short to let yourself be completely consumed with aviation.

Gurundu the Rat · Post by **Gurundu the Rat** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:23 am

...and employers are the bad guys when they institute training bonds..

Pilots are a part of doing business, just like fuel is. No one is hiring you to do you a favour. Pilots are tools used by the companies to satisfy their business needs and as such are discarded when there is no longer a need for them. With that in mind, if another company offers you what you are worth you owe your employor nothing. If you can't afford to pay your pilots then you can't afford to be in this business. Just like fuel, when pilots are in short supply, the price goes up. Stop short changing yourselves. Stop protecting your gready, cheap, a$$hole CEOs investments. You're entitled to your piece of the pie too, and if your company won't give it to you, someone else will. Go for it!

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:01 am

Well Jazz had no loyalty 4 years ago when they had guys laid off and calling others in for overtime. Sooner or later they'll have to wake up. I think they're going to try and stuff the right seats with 200 hr wonders not because there is a pilot shortage, but because theres a pilot shortage of pilots wanting to work for crap wages!

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:32 am

Gurundu the Rat wrote:
...and employers are the bad guys when they institute training bonds..
Pilots are a part of doing business, just like fuel is. No one is hiring you to do you a favour. Pilots are tools used by the companies to satisfy their business needs and as such are discarded when there is no longer a need for them. With that in mind, if another company offers you what you are worth you owe your employor nothing. If you can't afford to pay your pilots then you can't afford to be in this business. Just like fuel, when pilots are in short supply, the price goes up. Stop short changing yourselves. Stop protecting your gready, cheap, a$$hole CEOs investments. You're entitled to your piece of the pie too, and if your company won't give it to you, someone else will. Go for it!

Well said.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:21 pm

yycflyguy wrote:
Gurundu the Rat wrote:
...and employers are the bad guys when they institute training bonds..
Pilots are a part of doing business, just like fuel is. No one is hiring you to do you a favour. Pilots are tools used by the companies to satisfy their business needs and as such are discarded when there is no longer a need for them. With that in mind, if another company offers you what you are worth you owe your employor nothing. If you can't afford to pay your pilots then you can't afford to be in this business. Just like fuel, when pilots are in short supply, the price goes up. Stop short changing yourselves. Stop protecting your gready, cheap, a$$hole CEOs investments. You're entitled to your piece of the pie too, and if your company won't give it to you, someone else will. Go for it!
Well said.

Very well said.

Red1 · Post by **Red1** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:33 pm

I will always put my best interests and those of my family before company loyalty. When I left Jazz after six months, it was because I knew I was going to a place where I, and my family would have a better future. Let's be honest in the end it comes down to money and lifestyle, both had similar lifestyles, but the money was way better at WestJet. I did not feel any remorse or guilt about leaving, nor was there any resentment about me going. Aviation is like all other industries, labor will move to where they get the best deal. So don't be naive, the only one who looks after you and yours, is you.

abflyguy · Post by **abflyguy** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:04 am

As to knowing what you were getting paid going to Jazz and not getting a pay cut. I have to disagree that those did and didn't happen.
I along with other employees was told we were getting paid one way and 8 months after we were hired it was changed and decreased. So anyone that leaves Jazz for greener pastures is more than justified in my opinion.
The company apparently doesn't care that so many are leaving and that is right from the managements mouth so why should you care?
They expect the company to be a steping stone.

motherfokker · Post by **motherfokker** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:13 pm

Too right! Jazz guys did in fact take a pay cut about 10% when managment decided that paying FO's based on 85hours should be changed to 75. Sounds fun eh? Well Wesjet does seem to pay a whole lot better (10k more just to start) some say the big pay their pilots are recieving is just to keep any unions out. gee I guess it works.
As far as a huge pay increase at Jazz in 09 I think the guys will be lucky to get ten per cent. The college kids will be more than glad to do it for free, and more than likely pay for their own training in the form of college credits. Jazz does have good working conditions, good time off so I suppose the pay is somewhat of a comprimise.
Pilots definatly eat their own, " I'll do it cheaper, I'll do it for free, no wait I'll pay you to do it!"

tink · Post by **tink** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:45 pm

I dont often reply to the discussions on these forums. Mainly cause most of them are without merit to begin with. However........you know what never mind. After growing up in the red team and leaving it for teal all I can say is.... Couldnt be happier.... Good luck to all those in 09.

Lets have some beers and forget the us vs them crap and remember why we fly.... its the chicks

lol

2low · Post by **2low** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:59 pm

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:55 am

I think 2low has a secret love thing for tony. Tony, would you just send him a picture of you with your pickle exposed so that he will stop with this retarded absession?

Ahhhh oh to be in grade 9 and in love again!

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:13 am

Traf wrote:I think 2low has a secret love thing for tony. Tony, would you just send him a picture of you with your pickle exposed so that he will stop with this retarded absession?

Ahhhh oh to be in grade 9 and in love again!

Traf. Rehab didn't work. The doctors have given up. He failed the medical and the cog test so no job at AC. But somewhere, for someone, this guy actually is allowed to fly an airplane. Yikes. Maybe when he comes out of the closet he'll feel better. I better stop teasing him I guess. He ain't touching my pickle though.

2low · Post by **2low** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:37 am

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:57 am

Good one.
Back to the topic, when are you going from Jazz to WJ? I bet you're already there.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:03 am

......and the quality on AvCanada sinks to a new low. Why can't anyone just be happy for a fellow colleague finding happiness at another company?