It seems to me that many schools are finding trouble finding CFI's. Many of them seem to be reposting there jobs.
Those of you that CFI's what are you getting paid? What are the instructors under you getting paid.
Thanks
What are CFI's getting paid?
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Taxi Driver
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newalliance123
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Taxi Driver
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newalliance123
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newalliance123
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cool i got my multi commercial from aviator and got 100hrs on the multi
its a cool place since you get to build lots of multi time, but you need to be american to work there, they use to issue J1 visa that will allow you to work and get paid but i don't think they do anymore
They have the M1 visa you work but no pay
its a cool place since you get to build lots of multi time, but you need to be american to work there, they use to issue J1 visa that will allow you to work and get paid but i don't think they do anymore
They have the M1 visa you work but no pay
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sky's the limit
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newalliance123
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newalliance123
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Cat Driver
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I wonder what quality of instruction are some of these students getting......they are flying that much?
...how can anyone give good instruction after that many hours per day?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
And if all their instructors go to the airlines at 600hrs, what kind of instruction are they getting?Cat Driver wrote:I wonder what quality of instruction are some of these students getting......they are flying that much?
...how can anyone give good instruction after that many hours per day?
Newalliance, why would you stay there for 40K? Seems like you could have better deals elsewhere..
well at 40k that's allready double of what CFI's make here in canada, besides why is it so bad if you go to the airlines with only 600hrs?
It's better then here you have to get to 1000hrs then you have to work ramp somewhere for a year or 2 then if you get the chance to fly they don't pay good....yeahhhh that's a better road to the airlines
It's better then here you have to get to 1000hrs then you have to work ramp somewhere for a year or 2 then if you get the chance to fly they don't pay good....yeahhhh that's a better road to the airlines
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Cat Driver
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Not everyone wants the boredom of operating computers for the airlines.yeahhhh that's a better road to the airlines
The real question here is what kind of training are students getting from instructors who are putting in such high hours per day teaching?
In otherwords how poor does the training have to get before no one knows how to fly properly?
Or are flight schools all about preparing pilots for the airlines and the airplane designers are making smarter airplanes to make up for dummer pilots?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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wallypilot
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It's not about learning to fly anymore down at those places. It's about getting to the airlines. All you need for the airlines is the several hundred hours and a CPL/MEIR. It's just jumping through the hoops.Cat Driver wrote: The real question here is what kind of training are students getting from instructors who are putting in such high hours per day teaching?
In otherwords how poor does the training have to get before no one knows how to fly properly?
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newalliance123
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Instruction the students get is pretty much dependent on who your instructor is. Some are very good, some are very bad... Some students slip away and fall into rote learning that the pilot mill produces, But our school doesn't have in house check rides so the standard has to be kept pretty high. Although I think some students fly more then usual then if ever hour in the air was better trained etc.
I'm just leaving here actually on the pursuit to flying in Canada. I don't like Florida that much and am more about QOL then 14 hrs at airport daily. But ya if you wanna sign contracts to instruct here they'll pay ya good cause they are worried lately about the lack of experienced instructors.
I'm just leaving here actually on the pursuit to flying in Canada. I don't like Florida that much and am more about QOL then 14 hrs at airport daily. But ya if you wanna sign contracts to instruct here they'll pay ya good cause they are worried lately about the lack of experienced instructors.
I don't think that there's a good answer to the question whether students get good training when instructors often have limited experience and work for low pay.
I looked into labour law myself before I quit instructing in September 2005.
We have a case, but I would have had to make a complaint against my employer and become a pariah in the industry...
Indeed an e-mail I wrote to COPA on the dangers of pilots flying for poor pay, long hours, and often for operators who don't have social skills and treat their employees badly, was passed to ATAC.
Suddenly I was a point of conversation with one of the senior members of ATAC here who did not like me suggesting that Canadian operators alleged breaches of labour law be looked into.
I'm sorry, I am British and I have worked for many companies in England and I have always been treated with civility there.
I know, some will say I should go back there... But that's not the question.
In Canada the treatment pilots get is what you you read about in a Dickens novel.
So how do we improve our lot?
Not by moaning...
I hear Air Canada pilots often moaning about their lot in life... Having to fly an Airbus rather than a Boeing... They are hard done by it seems.
But then there's the rest of us.
We pay a high price propping up Canada's successful flight training industry that has been boosted by 9-11 and the US TSA.
We fly for a pittance and worry about paying back the loans we took for our passion.
I am still looking for the answers...
The CFI of any school is responsible for the quality of the training.
To ensure that quality (s)he should fly with his/her instructors once in a while to ensure their skills are up to the school's standard.
But few schools will eat the cost of internal training. Yet in my opinion this is essential.
It is also essential that everyone is kept happy and motivated, and that takes more than simple money.
Most of what I see is based on moan, and you do not get quality from unhappy people.
We do what we do... After quitting in Sept 2005 I got a job in China... That was a very stressful, unhealthy, and unhappy time, and even though the money was reasonable, I like many others got out of there. At least I gave the proper 90 days notice, most don't!
So I am back, my reputation as an instructor is good, and I am helping the school I worked at before while looking for better work.
The changes I see now are onerous. TC is taking action, poor under paid, and overstressed pilots here have had too many accidents in recent times.
Poor operating practices evident at CYVR have resulted in many fatal accidents in recent time.
TC here have tightened up on the flight schools too.
What I considered to have been the Canadian CPL standard in 2005 is now the PPL standard today.
It now takes an hour for the student to fill in the preflight paperwork and flights are often delayed.
Instructors are on duty around one hour of non-paid time for every hour of paid time.
So what needs to be changed is the culture. How we treat each other, how we regard a 'Profession' should be run.
Do we run it with professionalism, or as the worse kind of abuse?
Humanity is priority, even above the money.
I looked into labour law myself before I quit instructing in September 2005.
We have a case, but I would have had to make a complaint against my employer and become a pariah in the industry...
Indeed an e-mail I wrote to COPA on the dangers of pilots flying for poor pay, long hours, and often for operators who don't have social skills and treat their employees badly, was passed to ATAC.
Suddenly I was a point of conversation with one of the senior members of ATAC here who did not like me suggesting that Canadian operators alleged breaches of labour law be looked into.
I'm sorry, I am British and I have worked for many companies in England and I have always been treated with civility there.
I know, some will say I should go back there... But that's not the question.
In Canada the treatment pilots get is what you you read about in a Dickens novel.
So how do we improve our lot?
Not by moaning...
I hear Air Canada pilots often moaning about their lot in life... Having to fly an Airbus rather than a Boeing... They are hard done by it seems.
But then there's the rest of us.
We pay a high price propping up Canada's successful flight training industry that has been boosted by 9-11 and the US TSA.
We fly for a pittance and worry about paying back the loans we took for our passion.
I am still looking for the answers...
The CFI of any school is responsible for the quality of the training.
To ensure that quality (s)he should fly with his/her instructors once in a while to ensure their skills are up to the school's standard.
But few schools will eat the cost of internal training. Yet in my opinion this is essential.
It is also essential that everyone is kept happy and motivated, and that takes more than simple money.
Most of what I see is based on moan, and you do not get quality from unhappy people.
We do what we do... After quitting in Sept 2005 I got a job in China... That was a very stressful, unhealthy, and unhappy time, and even though the money was reasonable, I like many others got out of there. At least I gave the proper 90 days notice, most don't!
So I am back, my reputation as an instructor is good, and I am helping the school I worked at before while looking for better work.
The changes I see now are onerous. TC is taking action, poor under paid, and overstressed pilots here have had too many accidents in recent times.
Poor operating practices evident at CYVR have resulted in many fatal accidents in recent time.
TC here have tightened up on the flight schools too.
What I considered to have been the Canadian CPL standard in 2005 is now the PPL standard today.
It now takes an hour for the student to fill in the preflight paperwork and flights are often delayed.
Instructors are on duty around one hour of non-paid time for every hour of paid time.
So what needs to be changed is the culture. How we treat each other, how we regard a 'Profession' should be run.
Do we run it with professionalism, or as the worse kind of abuse?
Humanity is priority, even above the money.
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Cat Driver
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Two questions come to mind:It now takes an hour for the student to fill in the preflight paperwork and flights are often delayed.
( 1) Why does it take an hour to fill in the paper work before they fly, are they flying trans oceanic flights?
(2) Does an hour of paper work improve flight safety and if so how?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Answer:
(1) Researching the weather, getting all the ATIS reports over the phone etc even though a simple look outside like today will tell you it's bright sunshine...
Waiting for the aeroplane to come back from the delayed previous flight so that oil, and fuel can be checked, and a weight and balance report produced even though we already know the aeroplane will be under gross... I don't weigh that much!
Dispatch won't give the key to the student until it's all done and co-signed by the instructor.
(2) No.
Rules are rules and we have to abide by the company's SOPs. But in the context of the above, it's unpaid time for the instructor.
I can't criticize the above, it is required procedure, but in the past we have largely ignored it and gone flying.
Do I do it every time I fly?...
Did you sell your 150?
(1) Researching the weather, getting all the ATIS reports over the phone etc even though a simple look outside like today will tell you it's bright sunshine...
Waiting for the aeroplane to come back from the delayed previous flight so that oil, and fuel can be checked, and a weight and balance report produced even though we already know the aeroplane will be under gross... I don't weigh that much!
Dispatch won't give the key to the student until it's all done and co-signed by the instructor.
(2) No.
Rules are rules and we have to abide by the company's SOPs. But in the context of the above, it's unpaid time for the instructor.
I can't criticize the above, it is required procedure, but in the past we have largely ignored it and gone flying.
Do I do it every time I fly?...
Did you sell your 150?
That is why ALL schools should be required to pay BASE pay. I have ran two schools and all my instructors had base pay. This was a few years ago but a Class 4 got 500, class 3 got 750, class 2 got 1000 and a class 1 1500. They were all required to put in 8 hr days min 5 days a week. This prevented an empty school when prospects walked in for tours or fam flights when bookings were low. This is the cost of doing business of keeping people happy and wanting to upgrade which made the instructors better and happier. Instructors will always leave for better paying jobs and should be supported while doing so. Why should you hinder what is going to happen anyways. Most instructors will be carrying about 55k to 60k of debt. It's a shame a line worker at Micky D's makes more than most instructors at most schools.
Fear, Ridicule and Sarcasm. The recipe for a successful line indoctrination!
The West London Aero Club paid £500 a month base pay, the CFI said he wanted his instructors to be able to live.
Then they were paid £8.50 an hour for 20 hours a month, £12.50 for 20 to 30 hours, and £20 an hour for hours above 30 flown in a month.
One could live on that.
Getting the JAR licences is an expensive business though...
Today another of the realities of this business came home.
I was booked at 10:00 this morning... I arrived promptly to find my booking had been cancelled due to the only real aeroplane we have needing a 100 hour check.
Another instructor was flying off the remaining couple of hours in my slot.
My student was told yesterday, I found out on arrival.
My afternoon's student could have been rebooked in a Cessna 152 in the afternoon, we could have started his 5 hours instrument time... But this was not done either and all the 152s were booked solid.
It used to annoy me greatly when students cancelled late... If they had good reasons I wouldn't ask for the no show charge.
Today is a no money day and I can't bear this too often.
If I stay around the aerodrome I'll be asked questions, free information I am only too happy to give to my fellow instructors, it's the price of experience. But I have my tolerance limit, if I'm paid fed and happy there's no limit to what I will do for my fellow aviator.
Sad and hungry, there's still no limit, but then I resent myself for doing it...sometimes
I left the aerodrome, drove to the Flying Beaver and had lunch... I watched the float planes in and out... That's a job I'd like to do.
Pale Ale was on special, but I didn't; day VFR I stay away from alcohol.
Then they were paid £8.50 an hour for 20 hours a month, £12.50 for 20 to 30 hours, and £20 an hour for hours above 30 flown in a month.
One could live on that.
Getting the JAR licences is an expensive business though...
Today another of the realities of this business came home.
I was booked at 10:00 this morning... I arrived promptly to find my booking had been cancelled due to the only real aeroplane we have needing a 100 hour check.
Another instructor was flying off the remaining couple of hours in my slot.
My student was told yesterday, I found out on arrival.
My afternoon's student could have been rebooked in a Cessna 152 in the afternoon, we could have started his 5 hours instrument time... But this was not done either and all the 152s were booked solid.
It used to annoy me greatly when students cancelled late... If they had good reasons I wouldn't ask for the no show charge.
Today is a no money day and I can't bear this too often.
If I stay around the aerodrome I'll be asked questions, free information I am only too happy to give to my fellow instructors, it's the price of experience. But I have my tolerance limit, if I'm paid fed and happy there's no limit to what I will do for my fellow aviator.
Sad and hungry, there's still no limit, but then I resent myself for doing it...sometimes
I left the aerodrome, drove to the Flying Beaver and had lunch... I watched the float planes in and out... That's a job I'd like to do.
Pale Ale was on special, but I didn't; day VFR I stay away from alcohol.
How many hours do you have now? Perhaps its time to buzz off and leave that crappy treatment for some different crappy treatment.
Type rating instructor-pilots are well-paid and usually happy, although the flying is somewhat less than you get as a fire-bomber. If you love to instruct, are not just doing it to get ahead, go get some experience and come back to it. Good pay, good rosters, good benefits plus some great type ratings...what more is there? Level D sim., anyone?
For example, there is a job for a Dash8 instructor in YVR right now...
Cathay pays $120k Canadian plus a huge housing allowance to run a sim in HK...
FlightSafety allows you to get any type rating they offer, as a perk - BBJ, anyone?
Type rating instructor-pilots are well-paid and usually happy, although the flying is somewhat less than you get as a fire-bomber. If you love to instruct, are not just doing it to get ahead, go get some experience and come back to it. Good pay, good rosters, good benefits plus some great type ratings...what more is there? Level D sim., anyone?
For example, there is a job for a Dash8 instructor in YVR right now...
Cathay pays $120k Canadian plus a huge housing allowance to run a sim in HK...
FlightSafety allows you to get any type rating they offer, as a perk - BBJ, anyone?
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
