Aviation industry short of pilots - Canada

[CD]

This is a re-post as the original vanished...

Aviation industry short of pilots Retirement of baby boomers playing big role

WINNIPEG FREE PRESS
05/31/2007
Geoff Kirbyson

Retiring baby boomers and a high-flying aviation sector have left the industry desperately short of its most valued commodity -- pilots. A trio of airlines, including Air Canada, participated in a job fair for pilots Wednesday night in St. Andrews and they were hoping to pick up as many new recruits as possible.

Adam Penner, operations manager at Harv's Air, a flight training school that operates out of Steinbach and St. Andrews, said the shortage has become so acute there are more positions available than students to fill them.

He said smaller operators, in particular, are "hurting".

"WestJet and Air Canada are hiring so fast, the movement of pilots through the regional level (has sped up). The demand is always created from the top. When the airlines are hiring it has a sucking effect all the way down to us," he said in an interview Wednesday.

Bill Zuk, executive director of operations at the Manitoba Aviation Council, said the industry has done a complete 180 since carriers of all sizes were forced to lay off pilots in the aftermath of the 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States.

"The demographics have changed so rapidly with the baby boomer generation retiring," he said.

Zuk said the journey from flight school to regional player to national airline is becoming shorter for many new pilots. For example, he said 5,000 hours of flight time never used to be enough to get one in the door at a major carrier. Now, 2,000 or 3,000 hours is likely sufficient.

The growing trend towards greener people at airplane controls is definitely a concern, he said.

"The more experienced the pilots, the better it will be for airline operations and the safety of passengers in the air. There is a dramatic need (for new pilots). People are piling up the hours as fast as they can," he said.

Drew Chant, an Airbus 320 captain at Air Canada, said the country's largest airline has been hiring 20 or 30 pilots a month for the last two years and it's going to continue "until somebody says we have enough."

He said Air Canada typically loses about 120 pilots annually to retirement. It has about 3,400 pilots on staff.

"Right now we're hiring quite a few pilots because things are booming now in aviation and the economy is good," he said.

He said the need for new pilots may ease temporarily in the short term if industry players are successful in having the mandatory retirement age raised from 60 to 65.

The 75 people expected to be in attendance at Wednesday's open house were to hear pitches from three different airlines -- Air Canada, Calm Air and First Nations Air Transport. They were also to take tours of the flights school, meet some of the instructors and perhaps even take a "discovery flight," otherwise known as a first lesson.

Christine Alongi, manager of media and community relations at the Winnipeg Airports Authority, said consumer demand for air travel is definitely on the rise.

She said 2006 was a record-breaking year at Richardson International Airport with 3.4 million passengers. The number of people flying out of Winnipeg is up 6.4 per cent thus far this year and up 12 per cent in April alone.

"We are experiencing a tremendous amount of growth," she said Wednesday.

Winnipeg is no anomaly, either. Passenger traffic last year rose 15.5 per cent in Edmonton, 11.1 per cent in Calgary and 4.7 per cent in Montreal.

Coupled with the increased traffic in Winnipeg is new carriers entering the market, she said. Delta Airlines recently began offering service to Salt Lake City, Air Mexico now flies to Cancun and Zoom Airlines expanded its direct service to London from May through September to year-round.

geoff.kirbyson @ freepress.mb.ca

Want a career at the controls?

Think you'd like a career flying the friendly skies? Here's what you need to know before taking off.

* You need to have a minimum of a high school education and pass an aviation medical.
* You'll need one year of training to get the minimal qualifications to become a pilot. Then you've got to obtain 200 hours of flight training plus classroom instruction to get a commercial licence.
* If you're starting from scratch, you've got a minimum of five years ahead of you before you could apply to work for a national carrier.
* The bulk of Air Canada's pilots are based in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, with a smaller contingent in Winnipeg.
* Starting salaries at regional carriers can start as low as $25,000 a year, but retiring pilots at Air Canada make more than $200,000 annually.

Source: Air Canada, Manitoba Aviation Council and Harv's Air

Winnipeg Free Press

[KAG]

while I aree with some of the comments (the smaller companies hurting) There is no pilot shortage for the majors.

[Pete]

Whatever happened to the age requirement increase from 60 to 65? Is it going to come into effect or probably not?

[eternalhold]

I'll look again but thought that is only FAA.

[Jess]

I couldn't get past the reference to pilots as the industry's most valuable commodity.

[noisyride]

My favourite part is: "A trio of airlines, including Air Canada, participated in a job fair for pilots Wednesday night in St. Andrews and they were hoping to pick up as many new recruits as possible."
Air Canada was at Harv's hoping to pick up as many new recruits as possible? Or Harv's had Air Canada at the school hoping that Harv's would pick up as many new recruits as possible?
Maybe I'll quit my flying job, and go to Harv's to learn to fly again...maybe AC will take me then.

[Kelowna Pilot]

There's some truth in the article, but it reads like one of those paid advertisements that are written in a semi journalistic style.

Personally reading that made me feel embarrassed for Harv, who I've heard has a reputation for being one of the few 'straight shooter's in Canadian aviation.

If they toned the rhetoric down by about 10 notches and couched their marketing slogans in terms that left room for doubt and the fact that no one knows the future, I think they would be far better off in the end.

[apenner]

I didn't like the tone of the article either. I was surprise when a Winnipeg Free Press reporter showed up, and how he pushed the pilot shortage angle. I told him exactly that the shortage is being felt by the smaller operators and not the major airlines.

From time to time we have information "forums". I've found that many students considering aviation don't have a clue. So we invite at least 3 pilots to talk about their career experience. I have no control over what they say. No strings attached for the students, but at least they leave a little more educated and not just internet forum gossip. Certainly the story told was that aviation works in cycles and good times are always followed by not so good. Only get into this industry if you love airplanes and aviation.

These days our limit is not in convincing students into flying (we have a waiting list that's 5 months long), it's training/finding and keeping quality flight instructors. I appreciate the posting about being a "straight shooter", that’s certainly what we are trying to do.

[v6g]

It’s funny how airlines can think that they have a shortage of pilots when they’re paying such poverty-level wages.

In high-tech engineering, the companies also say that they have a similar “shortage” of engineers. With this “shortage” an engineer with the right experience can expect to be flown from anywhere in the world for the interview, given hotel & food for a week while he/she looks around the city just to make sure it’s a nice place to live (interview itself will only last a day but hey…), car rental too (read: Free weeks vacation). In case the 6-figure starting salary isn’t enough then they throw in $20k just to help make the decision.

That’s my understanding of the word “shortage”.

When an airline manager says they have a pilot shortage, what they really mean is “We can’t find people to work for our low salaries”.

There hasn’t been a true pilot shortage since 1942.

[Jeppesen]

It’s funny how airlines can think that they have a shortage of pilots when they’re paying such poverty-level wages.

When an airline manager says they have a pilot shortage, what they really mean is “We can’t find people to work for our low salaries”.

There hasn’t been a true pilot shortage since 1942.

No offense my friend but you're on the wrong boat, if what you want is make money then go to Uni and get a business degree, so you can work as a CEO somewhere else and make big bucks. I'll be always willing to fly for 80K a year, that's good money, good enough for a living.

After all the point of being a pilot is having the best "job" ever, not to become rich. And yes there is a shortage of pilots in the airlines, and that affects everything else down the rope. You don't want to fly for 80-120K a year? then like I said, get into a different career.

Not everything in life is about the money, at least not for me. Go ahead and called me a kid, or whatever else you want...

[Kelowna Pilot]

When this company goes out of business, then I'll believe there is a 'shortage'.

http://www.eaglejet.net


It's been said a million times before, just because Air Canada has to hire (finally, after 10 years of negative movement) it does not mean there is a "shortage."

Requirement to fill some seats, yes, shortage no.


When you have absolutely no problem attracting highly qualified, experienced and educated candidates (as Air Canada can) to work for less than $40,000 in a city like Toronto, that is not a hallmark of any kind of "shortage".

[flyinphil]

It’s funny how airlines can think that they have a shortage of pilots when they’re paying such poverty-level wages.

When an airline manager says they have a pilot shortage, what they really mean is “We can’t find people to work for our low salaries”.

There hasn’t been a true pilot shortage since 1942.

No offense my friend but you're on the wrong boat, if what you want is make money then go to Uni and get a business degree, so you can work as a CEO somewhere else and make big bucks. I'll be always willing to fly for 80K a year, that's good money, good enough for a living.

After all the point of being a pilot is having the best "job" ever, not to become rich. And yes there is a shortage of pilots in the airlines, and that affects everything else down the rope. You don't want to fly for 80-120K a year? then like I said, get into a different career.

Not everything in life is about the money, at least not for me. Go ahead and called me a kid, or whatever else you want...

Sorry Jepp but you are just cruchin a little too much granola out there in left field.

Rather than work for poor salaries, stop prostituting yourself and the rest of us, collect good pay for good skills and if you can't stand the accumulation of wealth, give it to charity. Leave the rest of us to do what we wish. A lot of pilots these days have gone to uni, do have degrees and have paid their dues. Unfortunately, those attributes are not really required to fly aircraft.

[Jeppesen]

Phil 80K-120K is not a poor salary, I agree with many that is not what it used to be but it is good enough for a living these days. It is way higher than the average Canadian salary.

[pika]

Jeppesen I called you a lot of things out loud when I read your post but here I will only call you a young idealistic high school student. I think you exaggerated your profile just a bit because you are not quite an "aviation college student" yet. Just accepted at Seneca so at most (I'm guessing) you have a PPL? You need to do something for me. Print your post and laminate it. Use bold or bigger text on the part about 80K being good money. Tape it to the back of your kneeboard, flight computer or whatever piece of gear (ATIS Wheel?) is with you for the next few years. When your new friends and instructors see it and ask if it is a prayer to guide you through the tough times proudly explain your beliefs on what constitutes appropriate pilot pay...

And yes there is a shortage of pilots in the airlines, and that affects everything else down the rope.

Can you expand on that just a bit with something beyond, "Well, the admissions guy at my school said..."? You have not worked hour 1 in the industry and you're doling out career advice? What airlines are experiencing pilot shortages? What is the immediate effect? Long term effect? What effect is that having "down the rope"? How is the industry reacting? How long until I get a 777 job?

You don't want to fly for 80-120K a year? then like I said, get into a different career.

Is it your opinion that 120K for a 787 or 777 Captain is excessive?

Not everything in life is about the money, at least not for me.

It would be nice if it were true Jepp. Reread your post about getting accepted at Seneca. You're already concerned about money. The thrill of flying will wear off. Another 0400 wake up for the privelige of flying newspapers around will only take you so far. Seventeen days straight with no flying while being some pr*ck's hangar b*tch for the honor of 1.4 hours of multi time might even start to irritate you. Your beater pilot car will soon begin to seriously suck in comparison to your buddy's new cars. Your days off at home will also seriously suck compared to your buddy's Cancun vacations. Being a broke ass adult also sucks way harder than being a broke ass student.

Here's a quote from a previous post of yours.

Can anyone tell me where can I buy the uniform? both the shirts and pants? Please make them affordable

Remember the part about making them affordable. Once you leave mom and dad's and make your 80K it is going to be your mantra.

[Jeppesen]

First off, don't star picking on me because I'll be going to Seneca. I don't want this thread to turn into another Seneca bashing thread, as it has nothing to do with it.

yes sir, I am a young idealistic student, but no longer a high school student. I don't see how you can call an exaggeration to classify myself as an aviation college student, given my acceptance at Seneca and my starting date being September 4. But if it affects you somehow, I will change it right away.

No need to print and laminate my previous posts, I'll leave it to avcanada.ca's server to save it.

Like I said, it is my opinion that 120K is GOOD MONEY, for a pilot. I never said it was excessive, but i did make emphasis that if Phil wanted more money than that, he should pursue a different career that will give him better results and faster. Taking in consideration his hopes of making more than 120K a year, a business degree and a CEO position will fulfill more his needs for money.

I too said, that "not everything in life is about money, at least not for me" and I'll repeat again. And that I will print and laminate. As you've discovered, I am concerned about money, but I fail to see what that has to do with my previous statement? I'm concerned in a sense of having just the enough money to pay for my education. Not just enough money to buy a BMW or anything for that matter.

If you think that money is everything in life then you're really missing the beauty of life. What kinda life are you living man? it makes me sad that you think the way you do. I don't care that there many students at my age driving cars , I don't care that I can't go back home to visit my mother because I can't afford it. I don't care that I can't afford to pay at all for my education, I don't care that I have to work part time till 1:30, picking up light bulbs at GE after school, so that i can financially support my family and save some money for my education. I only care about dreams, and things that are pure, things that are not contaminated with the unsustainable consumerism that our society lives by.

it's funny how I'm the one going through a rough financial situation and yet I'm happier than many who are not on the same financial boat. I take pride and happiness out of things that I accomplish given my situation. That's what makes me happy and my only expectations of an airline job is to take pride of what I've accomplish. I'm not the kinda of guy that takes pride for the car and house he's able to afford given his new job, or take pride given he's the owner of the most expensive house in the neighbourhood . That's just not my thing.

I can't afford to go to Cancun? that's no problem, I make sure my family is happy without having to go to Cancun. And if they're not, then what kinda of family that is?

I've already left my mom, and my dad is what i called financially "invisible", meaning that anything that has to do with money is my problem, and I can't go to him and ask for money he doesn't have.

I don't care if the "make it affordable" becomes my mantra. That really doesn't mean anything to me, it won make me feel bad. After all, my family, friends and people that know me, and will know me, will remember me not because of my mantra, but because of how I'm a living proof that dreams do come true. of how I managed to come out of my situation and succeed in life. That's all I really care.

and yes...I am a young idealistic student with strong convictions in life, knowledge and culture.

[Cat Driver]

and yes...I am a young idealistic student with strong convictions in life, knowledge and culture.

Jepp, when you graduate from Seneca, if you want to learn to fly an airplane to go with that diploma give me a call, maybe we can work something out.

[Kelowna Pilot]

Jep,

Save that 'Chicken Soup for the Seneca's Students Soul' post you just wrote and put it in your diary.

Read it 10 to 15 years later. You'll get a good chuckle out of it.

I used to think just like you.

[Hedley]

"If you're young, and right wing, you have no heart. But if you're old, and left wing, you have no brains"

[pika]

No Seneca bashing going on here. Although you did start by saying 80K was good which has now turned into 120K being good...
Take KelownaPilot's advice. Put the post under your pillow and read it in the future for a chuckle. Good luck with your skoolin' youngster.

[Jeppesen]

"If you're young, and right wing, you have no heart. But if you're old, and left wing, you have no brains"

What if you're young and left wing?

There something in Canada called tax deductions. I approximated that 120K after taxes is around 80K i might be wrong though

hehe, it's just funny how an 18 year old has the attention of all the 25-50 year old in this forum all of the sudden

[flyinphil]

Ignorance is bliss Jep. Just remember that.

When you grow up and actually take on the responsibilities of life ie: wife, kids, mortgage, cars, insurance, education, unemployment, sickness, divorce, taxes, bankruptcies etc, a higher than average income will become your friend. Don't beat it down.

Enjoy your blissful existence, reality is just around the corner.

[Jeppesen]

Ignorance is bliss Jep. Just remember that.

When you grow up and actually take on the responsibilities of life ie: wife, kids, mortgage, cars, insurance, education, unemployment, sickness, divorce, taxes, bankruptcies etc, a higher than average income will become your friend. Don't beat it down.

Enjoy your blissful existence, reality is just around the corner.

The writer must earn money in order to be able to live and to write, but he must by no means live and write for the purpose of making money.

[plhought]

The writer must earn money in order to be able to live and to write, but he must by no means live and write for the purpose of making money.

Ha ha ha ha...

[Adam44]

"If you're young, and right wing, you have no heart. But if you're old, and left wing, you have no brains"

I thought it was "if you're old and left wing, you have no money."

[5400AirportRdSouth]

This thread is so funny, I posted a link to it on youtube.