My mate - returned to Can 3 months ago after working in Africa for 5 years ( for United Nations) - previous to that he worked airlines in Canada for many years. He has been caught up in a Red Pass mess.
Transport Canada had advised all the airlines in the recent past that due to their lack of funding for proper Security checks on persons returning from overseas, they would not be able to issue them with Red Passes.
Canjet had already taken on some ( 4 I think) flight attendants who had been O/S. Their passes were refused and they lost their jobs - I believe they ( amongst others are litigating).
The airlines will not be willing to admit it - but until directed otherwise by Transport Canada, they will not interview you.
This week, Transport Canada are having a meeting on this very issue. There should be some further clarification by the end of the week.
To say my mate is utterly devastated by his complete inability to get one of the many available jobs there ( for which he is qualified) whilst this whole mess is going on would be an understatement. No company will even apply for him to get the Pass, so that he can then dispute the fact that it has been denied. Right now his hands are completely tied!!
This would apply to Singapore Airlines or Emirates pilots wishing to return to Canada to work or any other individuals from flight attendants through to airport staff/management etc.
This is dire news. It is a disgrace that hard working Canadian pilots can be rendered unemployable by such beaurocracy!!
I suppose they could always go fly float planes therefore not requiring a Red Pass.
Or perhaps join the Welfare line.
I would appreciate any other pilots going through the same problem to contact me or any one with any insights to the matter.
A friend of mine tried to get a summer job as a flight attendant and ran into the same problem having spent considerable time out of Canada on a student exchange. Not as grave as your friend but still a pain in the ass.
The quickest method is to enlist the aid of the news media. I would also post your message on every internet site in the world. You need to give your predicament as much exposure as possible.
i don't think anyone can really say anything good about the red passes... i recently got one from pearson and MAN what a herculean labour that was. however, the need is unquestionable and i guess we're resigned to calling them a necessary evil.
what i don't get is why each airport has their own pass. wouldn't federal control be more logical? if i was really adept at forgery, couldn't i make a fancy-smancy pass with vancouver written on it, and take it to halifax? i've come across one or two guards whom i would not classify as rocket scientists... are they all going to necessarily recognize what the pass from another airport should look like, exactly?
maybe i'm way out in left field... it's just something that's never made sense to me.
The security passes worn by 'Security ' in Yellowknife in particular look as if they were made by a 16 year-old so he could go drinking. Really inspires confidence.
And, whilst were out of the country we legally had to pay taxes to the same jerk-off government that is now prohibiting us from working at home! I’m staying over seas. At least here, we are respected!
From revenue Canada… No matter how you read it, they have their hands in our pockets.
You may be a deemed non-resident for tax purposes if you're otherwise a deemed resident of Canada who, under a tax treaty, is considered a resident of another country.
As a deemed non-resident, the same rules apply to you as a non-resident of Canada.
What are residential ties?
Residential ties include:
• A home in Canada
• A spouse or common-law partner (see the definition in the General Income Tax and Benefit Guide) and dependants in Canada
• Personal property in Canada, such as a car or furniture
• Social ties in Canada.
Other ties that may be relevant include:
• A Canadian driver's licence
• A Canadian bank account or credit cards
• Health insurance with a Canadian province or territory.
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koalabare wrote:Transport Canada had advised all the airlines in the recent past that due to their lack of funding for proper Security checks on persons returning from overseas, they would not be able to issue them with Red Passes.
Do you have a source, or a memo?
Sounds like a great project for CAAP!
If the above is policy, the policy could also affect me in the future and I am very interested to hear the whole story. Any info you can pass along to me here or via PM/email is appreciated.
I was overseas for a few years and returned to Canada back in 2001 (a few months before September 11th). It took months to get my red pass, and it's hard at an airline to do your job effeciently when you have a yellow "Escort Required" badge (how exactly am I supposed to do my walk around?)
Thanks for the heads up koalabare. I left Canada to work overseas again over a year ago. I think the majority of Canadian professional pilots who have left to go overseas to companies like Emirates will not return to Canada again. You're friend's experience suggests that we would be neither welcome nor processable either. This is fundamentally wrong, that certain Canadians can get services from the Federal Government whilst others cannot.
While I imagine that your friend has already done so, I think a letter to the Transport Minister and to his Member of Parliament would be appropriate.
Doctor MCDU, I don't understand what you are trying to say . . . but don't worry, I just poured myself a cup of coffee, maybe in a few minutes . . .
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“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
gelbisch wrote:what i don't get is why each airport has their own pass. wouldn't federal control be more logical? if i was really adept at forgery, couldn't i make a fancy-smancy pass with vancouver written on it, and take it to halifax? i've come across one or two guards whom i would not classify as rocket scientists... are they all going to necessarily recognize what the pass from another airport should look like, exactly?
gelbisch, just a few comments...I once held a position as Security manager at a Canadian airport and the International Airport Guide rules state that for proper access control, you needed to distinguish between airport passes. And they are federally regulated since they go through the RCMP.
I agree that with today's technology, a simple chip (which is already in use) could limit your access and therefore allow us to harmonize all the passes.
And trust me when I say that security guards are well trained not only for pass recognition (they receive training for all airport passes) but also for threat management, self-defence, bomb and explosive handling, First Aid etc. I see dumber pilots on a daily basis!!
As far as this Red Pass issue, I looked into it and couldn't find anything official. Can someone point me in the right direction?
The only applicable rule at this time is the month vs. year rule for background checks (the one the Canadian Forces use). I find it sad yet predictable that such measures are taken.
But as far as I'm concerned, it's a pretty Mickey-Mouse attitude to hide it from crews. Way to go TC.
Yoyoma
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In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett
Strict airport security pushes 1,000 out of jobs One woman sues over federal rule workers must have official records of activities outside Canada
Glen McGregor
The Ottawa Citizen
Thursday, September 02, 2004
As many as 1,000 airline employees are unable to get the security clearances they need to work in airports because Transport Canada requires difficult-to-obtain documentation from time they spent overseas.
To get an airport security pass, anyone who has lived more than three months outside Canada in the previous five years must provide documentation of their activities from police or security services in the foreign country -- a process that can be slow and in some cases impossible.
While the requirement hits recent immigrant workers hard, many skilled airline employees who have worked abroad find they are unable to get aviation jobs when they return to Canada, says Mike Skrobica, vice-president of the Air Transport Association of Canada, an airline lobby group.
"We have instances where we have pilots and aircraft maintenance engineers posted overseas on contract. They come back expecting to get a pass because they've been working for a Canadian company -- they're Canadian citizens -- and they're denied."
While it's relatively easy for employees who worked in the U.S. to produce police documents needed for background checks, some countries, such as Sudan and South Africa, keep no records of foreign workers. Others, such as Germany, refuse to pass on the information when requested, he said.
Mr. Skrobica accuses Transport Canada of changing its policy this summer without consulting the airlines first.
"There are a whole bunch of human rights concerns here. Absolutely law-abiding Canadians citizens, because of a policy change done by fiat, are now unable to obtain employment in their field in Canada."
But Transport Canada denies it has modified its policy on security clearances.
"The information provided by any applicant has to be adequate, reliable, and verifiable, normally covering a period of five years," said spokeswoman Vanessa Vermette.
"That's been standard policy since we started issuing clearances in 1986."
The Airport Restricted Area Access passes give airline employees access to the "airside" of airports and are required for mechanics, security guards, cleaners, pilots and check-in agents.
One employee who lost her job with the airline Jetsgo last month launched legal action against Transport Canada, alleging that she was unfairly denied a security clearance because of time spent in China.
Diana Stefanova, 28, had worked as a flight attendant for Hainan Airlines for four years after studying in a travel and tourism program at Toronto's Seneca College. She originally went to China on a co-op program and stayed to help pay off her student loans.
Ms. Stefanova returned to Canada, and this spring took a job as a passenger check-in agent at Pearson Airport. She was working on a temporary security pass while her application for a permanent card was processed. But Transport Canada told Ms. Stefanova that she didn't have adequate documentation from Chinese police and could not be given a clearance. She lost her job.
"I had been granted a security pass in China, by China, and I can't get one here, where I am a citizen. It's just crazy."
She had hoped her experience in the industry and her ability to speak Czech and Mandarin Chinese would help land a job with an airline. But now she finds herself effectively blocked from working in the field.
"It's the same thing as telling a doctor you can't work in a hospital. I was sent by school to China, I'm still paying student loans, so it's very frustrating."
Ms. Stefanova has asked the Federal Court of Canada to overturn the decision and force Transport Canada to review her application for a clearance. The department has not yet filed a response to the court action.
A spokesman for Jetsgo said that about 15 of its employees were denied security clearances this year and are unable to work for the company.
"We have been in touch with Transport Canada to make them aware of how it's affecting us in terms of employees," said Brad Cicero. "It does have an impact on hiring policies."
Mr. Skrobica says that he was told by Tranport officials that the new policy would affect only two per cent of security applications.
But he says that, with about 55,000 passes issued each year, more than 1,000 people will be kept from working at Canadian airports.
This article is a little biased because even before September 11, any period you could not officially account for "could lead" to a denied pass! It becomes more sensitive when this period was spent outside of Canada.
Interesting topic indeed!
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In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett
I attended a safety seminar hosted by Safety Systems of the TSB and Transport Can. this past April in Toronto.
One of the final speakers on the last day was a big shot from TC .
He sent a chill through the audience with one of his remarks about the passes. He told us Transport and the RCMP were conducting a review of every pass that was active in Canada. The RCMP were conducting more intensive/extensive criminal back-ground checks. He said people that had an impaired driving record need not worry too much but anyone else should.
Well.. we all see where this has lead.
Honest hard working Canadians can't get jobs because background checks can't be verified.
Way to go Transport. I feel so much safer now.
Yoyoma wrote:
And trust me when I say that security guards are well trained not only for pass recognition...
I'm sure this is true, but the system sure isn't foolproof. I once found a coworker's pass that had been left in an airplane. I put it in my flight bag intending to return it, and later put it on by mistake without looking at it thinking it was mine. The badge belonged to a 5'4" East Indian woman who I like to think looks nothing like me! (6' caucasian male...) I made it through 2 security checkpoints without being challenged. Eventually it was a girl at the Avitat who noticed the mistake!
Another time I went through security and a guy waved me through before I could dig out my pass saying "Don't worry about it, I've seen you lots of times". I'd never been to that particular airport before!!
The intentions may be well and good, but to see people losing jobs over a system of passes which is of dubious value at best is just one more thing to sigh and shake your head at!
Regruntled, like in any profession, you have incompetent workers. There is a great Security officer shortage ( this shortage is for real!) and airport budgets don't allow for higher salaries. So you end up with a dilemma. Put the least qualified and "non smart" at entry control, and the rest, move them to patrol, airside security, operations etc.
Another important factor is that the security business is a fairly demanding job, especially access control because of the long hours sitting and staring at people go by. After a few years, on your 7th hour, you tend to not look anymore.
But as I recall, every day, a threat or entry attempt would be simulated by Airport Security Managers and people who failed were fired! But like with Recurent rides, people swim through the fishnet...!
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In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett
I'm in the process of waiting for my "Red Pass". I got it mid June and my "Yellow Pass" expires in 9 days and NO WORD YET!?!? They contact the company to inform them of when I can pick it up.
If I don't have to go through the terminal at Pearson to get to my aircraft do I still need one to be airside? What about a charter pilot from a smaller airport that doesn't have a pass?
Well, I'm out of a job in 9 days if that's the case!!
Welcome to the real world of how things are done in your Government.
There seem to be three groups of people in Canada.
(1) The law abiding working segment of the population.
(2) Criminals.
(3) Government employees working for TC.
Guess who has the least rights under our system?
What else would you expect from a well protected body such as TC, when the person in its higest management position condones and approves of lying, dishonest top level managers who with impunity deny the rights of the people whom they are supposed to serve?
But, hey, all you guys knew how I feel.
Maybe it would be an idea to become a crimminal and at least have the opportunity of making a living and when you screw up you have more rights than the honest people have?
By the way when I get home I will post a picture of Wilbur Wrong my Sheltie, he proudly wears not only my TC security pass with his picture laminated over mine but has his own velcro attached Gold Captains bars...Wilbur is a real impressive looking dog.
However he ain't to smart he loves airplanes.
Cat
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
A few years ago I worked the Ramp at YVR and alot of people had ESCORT REQUIRED passes wich meant that their clearance hadnt come through yet and had to be in the company of a person with a Red pass. Is this still allowed anyone know? I remeber guys who were had arrived off the boat that had been wroking their fro over a year with escort required passes and it wasnt a problem.
If I may say so, there are two specific issues surrounding this topic that I find to be specifically bothersome.
The first one is that, as evidently experienced by koalabare's friend, is the outright refusal of Transport to "bother" to go through the steps to get the background check done for those aviation employees who have spent more than 3 months outside of Canada during the last 5 years.
The other problem, from my experience is that Transport tends to be "do it yourselfers." A few years ago, after returning from overseas I offered to help move the process along by providing police reports from the places I had resided, but was told that they are not acceptable-- that Transport does their own investigations.
So it looks like a S.O.L. type of situation.
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Yeh, Panama, exactly. these poor people are S.O.L. isn't that an incredible situation.....
And as long as the people in this industry allow TC to treat you like second class citizens things will only get worse.
If enough people in aviation just refused to take this kind of crap and made enough noise maybe some of these TC management would be replaced with people who will get some respect form the industry by giving us fair and even oversite of the industry, instead of the morally corrupt bunch that are in charge now.
Revolt is the answer.
Now I shall await all the TC defenders.
Cat
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
When I applied for my red pass, they told me they would contact the company when it was ready. The problem is, my company never told me it was done. After getting tired of waiting, I made a phone call to the pass control office who then informed me the pass had been ready for a couple of weeks.
Did you call the pass office yourself to confirm??
' in Yellowknife in particular look as if they were made by a 16 year-old so he could go drinking. Really inspires confidence. 
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett
Not very convincing!
this shortage is for real!) and airport budgets don't allow for higher salaries. So you end up with a dilemma. Put the least qualified and "non smart" at entry control, and the rest, move them to patrol, airside security, operations etc.
