This evening, a coworker and my employer got in a fairly heated debate about the subject of being paid for turning around due to inclement weather. We get paid by mileage and the boss's policy is if you have to turn around, you don't get paid. He then made the comment that this is industry standard and every company does this. I was hoping I could get some feeback and see what the standard really is throughout the industry.
The situation with my coworker was that he took off and an hour after departure the weather at the lake he was intending to land at went down to zero with fog covering the bottom of the valley. When he arrived, he tried a few options, talked to Parks Canada on the ground and decided it was not doable. He returned to base, did a few other flights, and then returned to his original destination once the weather cleared. This ended up leading to a sixteen hour duty day, but he only gets paid as if it were eleven.
My boss's argument is that he doesn't get paid for the trip, so neither should we. Our argument is that we do the same amount of work loading and flying regardless of the situation at the destination. I would really like feed back on this as we are continuing to challenge this policy.
Getting Paid for a Turnaround
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Cat Driver
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Seems like your boss is not being very fair to you...the fact that you try is reason to be paid.
I'd just quit and find a better employer.
I'd just quit and find a better employer.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Panama Jack
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Agree with Cat, in fact, I would use stronger language and call it complete horse shit.
Your boss is driving people to the point that some day he will have a smoking hole. Getthereitis. The boss needs to remember that he is the Entrepreneur, but you folks are the line employees.
Time to find a new boss. Hey, while you are at it, why don't you mention the name of this Safety cultured company?
Your boss is driving people to the point that some day he will have a smoking hole. Getthereitis. The boss needs to remember that he is the Entrepreneur, but you folks are the line employees.
Time to find a new boss. Hey, while you are at it, why don't you mention the name of this Safety cultured company?
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
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-President Ronald Reagan
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TenForTwelve
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Cat Driver
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I probably was being too PC about this.What Cat said.
There are so many jobs out there, if buddy doesn't want to treat you decently, then go work somewhere else. If people didn't work for companies like that, he wouldn't be able to treat people like garbage.
The truth is if I never ever got another job flying I would just walk away from any employer with that attitude.....
....it's really frustrating for pilots and engineers in that there is no one to turn to for help in these situations.....but I would rather be a live chicken than a dead duck.
Last edited by Cat Driver on Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cancelgar: Unless your employment contract specifies that you are on a commission based pay scale, your employer must pay you for your time spent working for him, regardless of whether or not you make it in to the destination.
http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/
Contact them and ask them to contact your employer.
http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/
Contact them and ask them to contact your employer.
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just curious
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Unfortunately BC labour laws do not apply to pilots. We come under federal labour laws only.rsandor wrote:Cancelgar: Unless your employment contract specifies that you are on a commission based pay scale, your employer must pay you for your time spent working for him, regardless of whether or not you make it in to the destination.
http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/
Contact them and ask them to contact your employer.
That being said, It's bullshit these days to be paid only if the trip is completed. Like JC says, it was normal in the disco era (he should know)
but is hopefully making an exit these days. Most companies worth working for around here are paying by the duty hour. That way you get paid for when you are actually at work and it's up to the company to keep you busy.-
Birdstrike#1
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Paying pilots a base pay and milage should be illegal in this day and age, Not paying a pilot for for an incomplete trip for any reason ought to be an indictable offence and your empolyer charged. Jesus what an asshole! I thought all of those dinosaurs were dead and gone.
Rule #62 "Don't take yourself so damn seriously"
Gee, I wonder why Transport Canada didn't follow their own advice from ten years ago ...
Especially considering:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/syste ... ssures.htmWhen a pilot is being paid by the mile or the hour flown, or is being paid only for completed flights, it puts pressure on the pilot to fly as many hours as possible and to complete the flights. These methods of remuneration have a direct and negative effect on the pilot's decision making, especially in seasonal operations where there are only a few weeks or months to work. Some operators offset this pressure by paying their pilots a fixed salary. Others require the client to pay for the flight time if the client wants to just "take a look" at the weather and the pilot doesn't complete the flight.
SR 37 - Recommend Transport Canada investigate a means to require air operators to remunerate pilots in a way that eliminates the operating pressures associated with the method of payment.
Especially considering:
Pilots can be pressured by management to take a flight in poor weather conditions or with an overloaded aircraft or with an unserviceable aircraft fearing dismissal if they don't take the trip. Many pilots are unaware of the Canada Labour Code, Part II or the Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) Regulations and the methods of recourse that are open to them if they feel they have been unfairly treated by an air operator or if they refuse to work because of dangerous work conditions. Air operators should also be aware of their rights and the rights of their employees as outlined in the Canada Labour Code, Part II and the OSH Regulations.
SR 36 - Recommend Transport Canada promote awareness of the Canada Labour Code, Part II and the Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) regulations to the aviation industry.
IA 36 - Recommend air operators and pilots educate themselves on the Canada Labour Code, Part II and the OSH regulations.
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
