you have no idea wtf you are talking about, my friend.noisyride wrote:*The* Ghetto of Canadian Aviation is not Jazz.
That title goes to Saskatoon and Thunder Bay. It's a tie.
Jazz is the ghetto of Canadian Aviation
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Low experience level, working long hours in a single pilot environment, flying aircraft with industry leading maintenance (sarcasm), doing circling approaches at night in shitty weather, icing, black hole, unapproved strips, poorly lighted runways ..... the list goes on ......Is flying a Navajo risking your life?
Airbus ... ILS to ILS, pavement, avionics, controlled airspace, two crew, no cargo/bag chucking.
So yeah ... i'd say the Navajo driver has a few more obstacles to overcome at the end of the day. Also risking your life isn't too far from the truth in some cases.
Cheers,
Loc
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Cat Driver
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True, there is a vast difference in the types of flying you described.......So yeah ... i'd say the Navajo driver has a few more obstacles to overcome at the end of the day. Also risking your life isn't too far from the truth in some cases.
......but I am having a problem with the risking your life bit.
...If you deliberately risk your life in a Navajo who's decision was that?
Yeh, that type of flying is definately tougher than ILS to ILS on paved runways, but the risks are only as unsafe as you choose to make them.doing circling approaches at night in shitty weather, icing, black hole, unapproved strips, poorly lighted runways ..... the list goes on ......
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Yeh, if you have an emergency and have to return to land at the departure airport you will have an ILS avaliable.ILS to ILS?
Can you grasp that idea CID?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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F/O Crunch
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Cat Driver
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Could be worse guys:
If my math is good that is earnings of $37662 US per year for 10 years and pay 100,000 USD in interest over 1o years.More than 90 percent of China's pilots are trained by the Sichuan-based Civil Aviation Flight University of China (CAFUC) under the supervision of the CAAC, which recruits up to 1,000 pilots a year.
Pilot trainees have to study and train in the CAFUC for four years before they graduate with a license and a bachelor's degree.
Airlines spend almost a million yuan ($130,000 USD) to train each pilot, said Wang Renjie, of China Southern.
Chinese pilots trained in this way are usually obligated to serve long-term contracts with the same airline.
Mr. Yu said the country would urge the CAFUC to produce more pilots but at the same time seek alternative training scenarios in order to provide more pilots to meet the market demand.
The 100 pilot trainees under the China Southern program would study at the CAFUC for two years, including 18 months of flight training to get a license, except for those who failed the examinations.
Men aged 20 to 27 with at least a high-school diploma could sign up at the website of China Southern for enrollment by the end of June, said Mr. Si Xianmin, President of China Southern.
They are expected to pay about 652,000 yuan (84,675.3 U.S. dollars) each for the training and are allowed to work for other airlines when they fulfill the required service for China Southern Airlines.
Trainees could get bank loans to cover expenses with China Southern Airlines acting as the warrantor, and they would be expected to repay the loans from their salaries within 10 years.
China's pilots can expect to earn around 2.9 million yuan over 10 years and the bank loans along with the interest would be about 900,000 yuan.
That'll buff right out 
Yah. That's 5000 posts whining about TC and 2000 attacking me. The rest are quite informative.7295 posts.... Jezuz!
That's not what I was addressing. The issue here is that having an ILS doesn't make things safer. It allows aircraft to land with lower minima. Runways that don't have an ILS have higher minima so the level of safety is maintained.Yeh, if you have an emergency and have to return to land at the departure airport you will have an ILS avaliable.
Can you grasp that idea CID?
Can you grasp THAT idea Cat Driver? Were all those water landings you made dangerous because there was no ILS?
Unfortunately that misconception is shared by others.Yeh, that type of flying is definately tougher than ILS to ILS on paved runways, but the risks are only as unsafe as you choose to make them.
If you are doing a visual approach with no nav aids, its not tougher or less safe than an ILS. If you're doing a non-precision approach to a decision height of 400 feet, it's not tougher or less safe than doing an ILS to 100 feet.
Last edited by CID on Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LostinRotation
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Cat, if you can't remember or appreciate the fact guys push the limits of their skill level every day at the early stages, just to get by, you've been out for too long. Either that or your contempt for Aviation has blinded you to the way things really are. Yes it's their own fault for being there...but it's the poor training, lack of experience, the shitty conditions and pay provided by operators. Most don't know any better ! Sometimes a pilot will bite off more than their skill level will allow them to chew...but they don't know it until it's too late.Cat Driver wrote:
True, there is a vast difference in the types of flying you described.......
......but I am having a problem with the risking your life bit.
...If you deliberately risk your life in a Navajo who's decision was that?
Yeh, that type of flying is definately tougher than ILS to ILS on paved runways, but the risks are only as unsafe as you choose to make them.doing circling approaches at night in shitty weather, icing, black hole, unapproved strips, poorly lighted runways ..... the list goes on ......
-=0=LiR=0=-
Sometimes I think it's a shame when I get feelin' better when I'm feelin no pain.
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Cat Driver
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How do you come to the conclusion that I have a contempt for aviation?. Either that or your contempt for Aviation has blinded you to the way things really are.
If I held aviation in contempt why have I stayed in it for the past 54 years?
.Cat, if you can't remember or appreciate the fact guys push the limits of their skill level every day at the early stages, just to get by, you've been out for too long
Of course I remember, how could I forget. Out for to long? I just retired last year.
but it's the poor training,
Who do you blame for that?
Lacking in experience is a difficult one to fix, except by getting experience......and for the sake of safety a new pilot should not be asked to do anything that would be beyond their ability......but then we are back to the fact that they were poorly trained and therefore of little real value to the operator until they are better trained.lack of experience,
Maybe there needs to be better oversite of operators?the shitty conditions and pay provided by operators.
Very true, and it has been like that ever since I can remember, so who do we look to to correct this situation?Most don't know any better ! Sometimes a pilot will bite off more than their skill level will allow them to chew...but they don't know it until it's too late.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Why do you want me to ask a question then answer it Localizer?You're the one with 54 yrs in aviation ..................... care to answer your own question?
Cheers,
Loc
If you really can't figure the answer out maybe aviation is not the area where you should work.
Or you could call your regional TC safety officer who may know the answer.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Are those stats published anywhere?MURRAY wrote:Bede:
That said, JZA's RJ's still lead the pack in terms of missed/blown/disregarded clearances. A small amount, true, but significantly more than any other carrier group. Remedy the apathy, and fix the world's most dangerous flight numbering system and you might just turn it around.
You mention "screwing up". From an ATC perspective, we've got a pretty good idea of when you're screwing up (i.e. you don't hear shit, you don't do what you're told, etc. etc.). How could you tell when a guy like "ROG" is doing a good job? What is a good ATC job from your vantage point? And be careful...
Murray , I could give you testimonials from a lot of pilots that you guys are the most inefficient ATC around. We love it when we have to set up for a different runway every time we are handed off. Maybe if you guys could get that straight there might less confusion in the cockpit. Also if I remember correctly did not you or one of your co-workers have a stuck mike this winter and look like a total jackass with a female Jazz pilot.
I am sure is has something to do with a lot of movement in the industry. There is a lot of learning going on. And until such time when learning has peaked and routine becomes routine, there always will be screw-ups, missed calls etc.
...Seems they are going to remove the axe and the control column from the cockpits for security reasons.
All this from a person who has flown how many approaches??CID wrote:Yah. That's 5000 posts whining about TC and 2000 attacking me. The rest are quite informative.7295 posts.... Jezuz!
That's not what I was addressing. The issue here is that having an ILS doesn't make things safer. It allows aircraft to land with lower minima. Runways that don't have an ILS have higher minima so the level of safety is maintained.Yeh, if you have an emergency and have to return to land at the departure airport you will have an ILS avaliable.
Can you grasp that idea CID?
Can you grasp THAT idea Cat Driver? Were all those water landings you made dangerous because there was no ILS?
Unfortunately that misconception is shared by others.Yeh, that type of flying is definately tougher than ILS to ILS on paved runways, but the risks are only as unsafe as you choose to make them.
If you are doing a visual approach with no nav aids, its not tougher or less safe than an ILS. If you're doing a non-precision approach to a decision height of 400 feet, it's not tougher or less safe than doing an ILS to 100 feet.
Oh yeah, I forgot you aren't a pilot are you CID.. Therefore how do you become an expert on what it takes to be a pilot??
twotter, I don't know you, you don't know me or how many approaches I've flown.All this from a person who has flown how many approaches??
Oh yeah, I forgot you aren't a pilot are you CID.. Therefore how do you become an expert on what it takes to be a pilot??
I do know that you usually offer very little to discussions. You've proven to be quite irrelevant.
Tell you what. Show me where my statements are inaccurate then we'll have a discussion. In the mean time crawl back under your rock. Or is it a house made of straw?
Cheers
So, how many approaches have you flown?
This is very relevant to the discussion as you are telling everyone about how airplanes work and how approaches work..
Let us all know how many you have done to minimums... I'd be the first to congratulate you if you have done any...
Cheers
This is very relevant to the discussion as you are telling everyone about how airplanes work and how approaches work..
Let us all know how many you have done to minimums... I'd be the first to congratulate you if you have done any...
Cheers
