Air Mikisew VS Perimeter....

Hawker · Post by **Hawker** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:29 pm

pilotsdream wrote:Spoke with Cheif pilot this morning he said 8months on ramp/cargo
and it was 9.50 to start

$8.25 is in case that helps you make your decision. Cargo Manager has the say on wages. and it might take you that 8 months to realize you'll be there for another 16 before anything happens

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:40 pm

You don't need to work the ramp to show that, that's what references are for.

And jobs in the middle of nowhere.

Seems like there's two ways being argued here. One states that ramping can be skipped but usually that's for a smaller, more remote operator. The other says that ramping needs to be done due to the high demand from wannabes in more populated cities.

I often feel for the guys that have been ramping for 12 months and say that they've got 12 more. I feel more for the guys that are 19 months in with maybe 6 to go and are so burnt out but really can't leave after putting in that kinda time. Mostly though, it's when I see a new, fresh faced rampy that's all lost doing his job but tries hard and is proud to be hired and was told by the CP that "he'll do about 8 months on the ramp." Of course I don't tell him that because I don't know him and it's better to find out by oneself.

pilotsdream · Post by **pilotsdream** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:15 am

Hawker do you work for perimeter?

TheEvilTwin · Post by **TheEvilTwin** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:44 am

Are we talking Perimeter here? 8 months or 8 months MINIMUM. Thats funny if it is considering there are some guys pushing almost 2 years already... I'd get that 8 month wait in writing if I were you...

Hawker wrote:
pilotsdream wrote:Spoke with Cheif pilot this morning he said 8months on ramp/cargo
and it was 9.50 to start

elfransa · Post by **elfransa** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:35 am

Well guys i don't think it's normal that you have or even choose to work ramp to get a flying gig later.
A professor doesn't have to be janitor before teaching, so why should we.

That's why there are so many pilots go abroad for a real flying gig.

If everyone would say no to the ramp jobs maybe the whole canadian industry would change

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:35 pm

elfransa wrote:Well guys i don't think it's normal that you have or even choose to work ramp to get a flying gig later.
A professor doesn't have to be janitor before teaching, so why should we.

That's why there are so many pilots go abroad for a real flying gig.

If everyone would say no to the ramp jobs maybe the whole canadian industry would change

A prof has 8+ years of university under their belt with years experience as teacher assistants/aids and tutorials and experiments. There's not many people who have the qualifications to become a professor. They're in high demand and most schools will pay top dollar to find one.

You don't need any education or experience to be a janitor. Anyone can do it.

A 250hr pilot is more like a janitor than a professor, in my opinion- limited work experience (if any) and you don't need much education (you can go from 0hrs to CPL/MIFr in less than 1 year if you wanted to). Also, there's so many 250hr pilots out there with little demand for them.

A highly experienced pilot is more like a professor than a janitor however. They have what the 250hr pilot doesn't have- experience.

I'm not saying you need to work the ramp to get good experience. If you can avoid it, by all means do. But at 250hrs, nobody owes you anything nor have you really proven yourself in the industry.

DHC3Rwannafly · Post by **DHC3Rwannafly** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:14 pm

C-HRIS wrote:But at 250hrs, nobody owes you anything nor have you really proven yourself in the industry.

You've proven to TC that you posses the skills required for a commercial pilot, and other various ratings. Nobody owes anybody anything. And all this training, and assisting teachers do is when they're in "Teachers College" so when they graduate, they get put in a classroom and have their version of line indoc. It makes sense to work the ramp when you have a ppl so you can learn how the industry works and prove yourself then once you have your license they can hire you.

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:39 pm

You've proven to TC that you posses the skills required for a commercial pilot,

Just want to point out the TC might not be the best judge of who's qualified to fly an airplane. Though I don't really think anyone should have to work the ramp

pilotsdream · Post by **pilotsdream** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:23 am

Thanks everyone...
We have made our choice!
Look out Winnipeg :p

Stubby · Post by **Stubby** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:31 pm

Hi boyz nd Girlz.

I've been around the patch, a few patches actually, and NEVER worked ramp. or dock, but I did fix outboards and boats, and got captain whiskers flying my favorite C180 around. I believe that if YOU believe that, working the ramp is what it takes, then that is what you Will do. But if you believe different, you will get different.

You have to ask YOURself, "Do I WANT to work the ramp"? If the answer is "no", then you will search for the alternatives. Or if you don't search, then you'll likely work "the ramp". Since you are working the ramp, then that is what you really want, bcuz, that is what you're doing!

Picture yourself in your dreams... are you working the ramp?... if not, then why is that an option? Is it your only option? explore gentlemen...

Aviation is a big world.

There is more to working the ramp for 2 years.

be creative. or.. "work the ramp".

ciao!

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:23 pm

Good post, Stubby. Gospel.

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:31 pm

well thats awesome stubby but some are workin the ramp cuz not everyone can find any direct entry jobs. so for those who dont, the ramp is the only other option other than waiting around wasting time. thats my take anyways

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:37 pm

not to be insulting to anybody but how hard did you look? how many kms did you put on your car? how many resumes of yours are out there? now how many phone calls per resume did you make?

What I found to work the best, was to bug the shit out of them, send xmas cards, send bday cards, send random e-mails (with a point obviously), make them remember your name, basically get them to think that you wont leave em alone till they hire you.

Worked for me.

PS I dunno but i dont think they would like that in a level 2 or 3 company..... but i never tried.

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:28 am

lyncher wrote:not to be insulting to anybody but how hard did you look? how many kms did you put on your car? how many resumes of yours are out there? now how many phone calls per resume did you make?

What I found to work the best, was to bug the shit out of them, send xmas cards, send bday cards, send random e-mails (with a point obviously), make them remember your name, basically get them to think that you wont leave em alone till they hire you.

Worked for me.

PS I dunno but i dont think they would like that in a level 2 or 3 company..... but i never tried.

well yes i did in fact do that with one company and was on the verge of getting on til they folded (shame, good company too)

but I didnt quite get the same chance to bother any other company the way i did this one. its a bit harder but ive sent every place i thought i had a shot with a resume and email at least 2-3 times. maybe im not trying hard enough i guess. its hard to drive or fly thousands of kms only to be turned down. i spent $600 on a ticket to go to CY-- and the company there decided they didnt need to hire 3 guys, just 2. and the ops manager/cp didnt even have the time to see me, and he knew i was flying in too. kinda harsh.

ah well, ive spent 7 months on the ramp now, doesnt mean im not still trying, but its a little harder when your strapped down with a company.

good on you if it worked for you though

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:26 pm

and the ops manager/cp didnt even have the time to see me, and he knew i was flying in too. kinda harsh.

It is worse than harsh, it is unacceptable unless he left you a message explaining why he could not see you.

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:43 pm

hey flying, where are you? how many hours do you have? what kinda licences?

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:27 pm

its where i was. i just got hired today by a great company flying navajo f/o

bye bye ramp

'effin hippie · Post by **'effin hippie** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:41 pm

So two examples of guys who didn't work the 'ramp' and both wrenched, one on planes, one on boats and such. So Cat and Stubby, you are both saying that you did something else before your employer decided to trust you with their A/C? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I ramped a little and was a dispatcher for a year. 12 months to the day after my hire date I got into the right seat, I continued to dispatch for another 6 months in addition to flying. I don't regret it, I did learn a ton that has helped me down the road, particularly dispatching. Would I have avoided it if I could have found a way? Damn right I would!!

Maybe we need a poll? "How many of us got a job flying without having to spend ANY time doing non-flying duties for the company who put us in a seat?" And for those of you who did, what made the difference? Even luck is attached to a specific circumstance, what was it?

I think most companies taking entry level people like having a little while to evaluate their new hires prior to putting them into an A/C. Just to weed out the idiots who read some of the excellent posts in this forum about how to impress at the interview. 2 years seems pretty brutal though, especially right now; and SHAME on those companies who abuse young peoples aspirations.

There is neither shame nor honor in working the ramp or some other ground position, it's just a way of getting where you want to be. Anyone who is taking a really strong position on this one way or the other is simply out of touch.

Anyway, this is all irrelevant. When it comes to 200 hr pilots, supply forever outstrips demand, and this is a free market, as it should be. Those of you who are so against ramping, you should be careful what you wish for - there is a sure fire way to avoid ramp time: Regency used to sell'em for around $7K.

ef

edit: good choice on the green machine, given the option...

Jim N · Post by **Jim N** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:21 pm

'effin hippie wrote:...Those of you who are so against ramping, you should be careful what you wish for - there is a sure fire way to avoid ramp time: Regency used to sell'em for around $7K....

Good point. You are slightly off on the price though, it was $4600 for the BN2 and $4900 for the PA-31 (plus GST) for what it is worth. No RXX to sell them to you anyhow...

I wouldn't be against working the ramp if it was for more than minimum wage. I know instruction isn't for everyone, but it was the route I went to start flying. Lots of schools gagging for instructors now and it is a good source of PIC. Worth considering if two years on the ramp is not your bag.

Air Mikisew VS Perimeter....

Thanks

never worked ramp or dock