CMA Pay?

JetPilot123 · Post by **JetPilot123** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:49 am

Is the pay still that bad? It would be a great job if you could make more money, hard to live in calgary or van on those wages.

Takes 5 years at CMA to make first year pay at Sunwest.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:33 am

Jetpilot,

I'm not a Mod on here, but I've been informed that the words "CMA" and "pay" can no long be used in the same sentence on Avcanada. It's misleading, and potentially slanderous to the other outfits who actually do pay something....

stl

swede · Post by **swede** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:33 am

sky's the limit wrote:Jetpilot,

I'm not a Mod on here, but I've been informed that the words "CMA" and "pay" can no long be used in the same sentence on Avcanada. It's misleading, and potentially slanderous to the other outfits who actually do pay something....

stl

Sounds about right, I think their pay rates are at circa 1980's level

Nightflight · Post by **Nightflight** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:04 am

I don't think with CMA you can call it pay. It is more like a token gesture to appease the labor board. 22K for the right seat of a tier III carrier is just plain disgusting.

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:38 am

So how many hours/years of experience does it take to make the big $22K per year?

How tough is it to get in at CMA these days? Still have to literally stalk the CP for your chance to join the working poor?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:57 pm

more and more I'm thinking the problem isn't with CMA, but with our fellow pilots who are breaking down the door to work there. when CMA runs out of quaified people who want nothing more than to work there for that very low wage, they will pay more. same goes for jazz, why would they pay more when they don't have to.

somehow we have to convince pilots that they deserve to be paid a lot better, and also give them big enough balls tell companies that.

tundratire · Post by **tundratire** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:44 pm

The pay is like that because many think that " i just need to get some time and experience......and then the NEXT company will pay me more. Company's LOVE this mentality from pilots. Saves them money when people chase hours/airplanes.

Next thing you know Jazz WILL be paying 35 K a year to start and AC 38K.....wait a minute....

I admit...i've helped the pay in becoming this low...hopefully i can help to change it.

Phlyer · Post by **Phlyer** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:04 pm

I'm amazed people go to CMA - 3500tt and 40g to start as captain. I work at Georgian and they will upgrade at 2700tt with 48 to start; goes to 51 year 2.

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:50 pm

This is what gets me...

We keep hearing talk of pilot shortages, the sky is falling, blah blah...

Yet CMA has no problems attracting experienced guys to work for wages that match fast-food workers.

What gives?

Phlyer · Post by **Phlyer** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:25 pm

Captain Jack · Post by **Captain Jack** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:51 pm

Sometimes its hard to sit on one side of the fence. It seems that the airlines are making it harder for guys to say no to crappy pay.

I turned down a DEC job at CMA because of pay and bases, then got PFO'd at Jazz soon after. I'm trying not to look back because I'm curently making 52K as a 1st year Jetstream skip, but as people like flightlevels point out, it seems WJ won't even look at you unless you have Jet, Glass, or 705 time.
Judging by the people I know who have got on with AC, it seems the same thing.
Where I live, it's still relatively cheap to buy a home (I just bought a brand new HOUSE, thats right HOUSE) not even a year ago, and already am getting jittery, and thinking of re-applying for Jazz.

I want to make it clear that I absolutely DO NOT agree with the whole whore yourself out thing that goes on in this industry, but we are pilots, and unless we are Left seat in that widebody crossing the pond, it seems we are never happy!

P.S - life here is good, lots of time at home, and fantastic weather! Just wish I was in that teal 37 instead of a mismatched 32!

AV8OR · Post by **AV8OR** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:54 pm

http://www.willflyforfood.cc/airlinepilotpay/

app flap · Post by **app flap** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:05 pm

someday, i will fly for UPS - 'we wanna race the 777, people love the 777'

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:12 pm

I'm really worried that I didn't get around to calling them back after the interview. That whole, "we upgrade on seniority" thing not on the fact that you've got almost 4000 hours. Guess I'll just have to make do with making almost three times as much where I am.

CubPilot · Post by **CubPilot** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:35 pm

I presently fly a caravan making about $45000 a year and CMA wanted me to start with them for $25000. How do ADULTS live on such low pay??? Well of course it was a No brainer I said thanks but no thanks!!

I just wish everyone would stand up and just say NO!!!

Fly safe!

Flying Nutcracker · Post by **Flying Nutcracker** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:10 pm

To quote... "Sounds about right, I think their pay rates are at circa 1980's level"

Well to put it this way... CMA may be stuck in 1980, but the people who are looking for work are equally stuck in 1980 because they didn't get ahead in 2004 when the mad rush started... and now have to take a step back in time to get back to present time to get a future! Don't blame any company for their business tactics... blame yourself for not being part of the solution to OUR problem! And you can read that to mean "don't do it if you don't like it!".

We all got to start somewhere... I did.. started somewhere... doing good now!

FN

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:48 am

My two cents.

First of all, it is good to see that some people are turning down the job for pay. Means the 703/704 people are keeping their better pilots. And it will mean soon that those who pay these wages will get the quality of pilots they deserve.

Which brings me to another observation. these companies know that there is a pool of pilots out there who will whore themselves out for time.
It seems that we as pilots seem to accept this. But do you really want to work for a company that thinks so little of you? You can bet those that are making the hiring conditions are making one heck of lot more.

But the reality is as long as we have a pool of stupid pilots and morally challanged companies willing to take advantage of the situation , not much will change.

Bravo to those of you who declined a job offer due to low pay.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:30 am

Sad part is that I would bet that the pay scale could be even lower there and pilots would still be knocking the doors down trying to get in. These pilots must be really desperate or really stupid to work for wages like that, especially when other companies are looking for pilots and paying way more.

Cel · Post by **Cel** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:40 am

I want Money...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:57 am

How do ADULTS live on such low pay???

At first, CubPilot, I was atonished at your naiveté! But then I realized that the misconception that minimum wage is difficult to live on in the city is, really, pretty common.

In this case, after a hard day's flying, a pilot can live on these sort of wages by the siimple use of two little words when they walk in through the front door.

"Hi, Mom!"

I hope this helps.
JC

shankdown · Post by **shankdown** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:31 am

My thinking is that those who work for 22K are more dazzled by the idea of wearing a shiny uniform with eppaulettes and pilot's hat than they are disgusted by making such a wage. That's why they go to CMA and not some other carrier that pays them what they're worth.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:43 am

Yesterday at work I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that CMA's pay went up. Man I really gotta switch to decaf...now I'm hearing things.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:57 pm

co-joe wrote:Yesterday at work I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that CMA's pay went up. Man I really gotta switch to decaf...now I'm hearing things.

You don't need to switch to decaf, you're not hearing things. You're hallucinating, you need to see a doctor.

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:08 pm

My thinking is that those who work for 22K are more dazzled by the idea of wearing a shiny uniform with eppaulettes and pilot's hat than they are disgusted by making such a wage.

That's a well known trick. Your worker wants a raise... instead, give him a fancy new title and a new business card (even though his job remains the same).

Same principle here.

I could see 22K perhaps being okay if you were hiring 200 hour pilots with absolutely zero experience straight out of school, but from what I gather the average CMA new hire FO is coming in with 1000 to 2000 hours plus.

snag · Post by **snag** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:22 pm

I could see 22K perhaps being okay if you were hiring 200 hour pilots with absolutely zero experience straight out of school, but from what I gather the average CMA new hire FO is coming in with 1000 to 2000 hours plus.

Well, that's why the only ones making 22,5 are upgrades from the ramp. Minimal time guys, direct entry, usualy get 25k or 28k. Some faster upgrade guys start at 33k. Some direct entry captains start at 45k. All based on what you bring to the table. Like everywhere else. Don't like it, don't apply. Yes the pay is very low, but that doesn't keep the resumes from pouring in. Maybe there's something here after all.

CMA Pay?

CMA Pay?

Just Say NO!!