Multi-IFR before CPL? Is this right?

mugen_rsx · Post by **mugen_rsx** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:18 am

I am going to start my training in Vancouver (boundary bay) starting mid Aug. I am currently holding a PPL. As everyone knows, the weather in Vancouver will not be very good after August, so i am planning to get a IFR first. So even if the weather is not perfect, I can still fly IFR to build up my hours for CPL.

This is just my guess. Am I right about it?

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:49 am

You are correct!

Good Luck

T01

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:06 pm

No reason not to. Just make sure that the instruction for the Multi and IFR are from someone with an instructor rating and are recorded in a PTR as part of a commercial program so that you can count the time towards the requirements for the commercial.

PTP · Post by **PTP** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:55 pm

Mixed thoughts on that idea:

Pro's:
- Less weather dependant for future flights
- A different type of experience gained during your training.

Conns:
- You need 50 hours pic xc to hold your ifr. After you have built this you may not have that much time building left.
- An ifr rating pretty much only allows you to head south in a light single. (unless you love CYYJ and CYXX)
- on IMC days you will still be limited due to thunderstorms and icing.

I've recommended some friends to do this in their training. But it also depends on the individual. Keep in mind, twins are harder and more expensive to fly. By waiting until later in your training, you will have better hands and feet and can develope your skills further in a single first.

my 2 cents,
ptp

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:20 pm

I did my MIFR within the 200hrs for the CPL, no problems. Still had time leftover to take the girlfriend at the time for a few trips.

stl

fougapilot · Post by **fougapilot** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:19 am

Many schools here in Montreal recommend to their students to complete the multi-ifr before finishing their commercial.

As previously mentionned, make sure that you IFR training is conducted by someone that holds an instructor rating (one does not need an instructor rating to teach IFR and many who do teach it may not have a valid instructor rating - I am the primary example of this) and is recorded in the commercial PTR.

It will significantly reduce the total cost of your training. No need to do the 20hrs of instrument in the commerciel since you have done them in the IFR training.

F

Big Pistons Forever · Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:49 am

My personal experience on this issue has not been very possitive. I have found that most new PPL's did not have enough stick and rudder skills and therefore they were always behind the airplane. Remember IFR flying is all about the procedures. If you are devoting all your brain cells to keeping the dirty side down you won't have any left to do the IFR stuff.

Also flying VFR is a skill in itself, one well worth cultivating. I recommend time builders go on a big cross country trip. If you want to time build in November go to Florida and back. I guarantee you will learn a ton of real world flying lessons and be alot better for it.

I started as flying instructor and did not do my multi/IFR untill I had about 550 hours. I started the course with very current skills and found it a quite easy to complete in the minimum time, definately that would not have been the case if I had done it as a PPL.

mugen_rsx · Post by **mugen_rsx** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:51 am

Thank you for all your reply!!!

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:59 am

did my multi IFR during my commercial, still had 50 hours of build up time after my 50 PIC x country, i've found though that Transport frowns upon your long cross country (commericial 300nm trip) if its IFR they want you to go VFR only. (would have been a lot easier to do if they let me go IFR instead of waiting a month for weather to clear), like everyone has been saying make sure its an instructor and make sure its in the PTR towards your CPL

Adam44 · Post by **Adam44** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:17 pm

Big Pistons Forever wrote:Also flying VFR is a skill in itself, one well worth cultivating. I recommend time builders go on a big cross country trip. If you want to time build in November go to Florida and back. I guarantee you will learn a ton of real world flying lessons and be alot better for it.

Better yet, night cross-country. Those 25 hours for the ATPL end up becoming quite a pain for some people...

good_idea · Post by **good_idea** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:58 pm

I would suggest doing your CPL prep right after completing PPL. You can do the CPL flight test at 150hrs. One thing I see is students building time after their PPL and developing bad habits.
Once the CPL is complete finish off the 50 hrs with with a split between dual for Multi and IFR and solo approaches for practice in a single at CZBB, CYXX, CYYJ, CYCD, KBLI, KFHR. Then with the 200hrs you can then file for your CPL.

good_idea

Big Pistons Forever · Post by **Big Pistons Forever** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:17 pm

Good Idea.... Not. We do not need more comercial pilots who have never been more than 75 miles from home doing the same 4 approaches for the 20th time.

You have got to get out of your comfort zone if you are ever going to learn anything.

good_idea · Post by **good_idea** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:06 am

That is the great thing about doing IFR training in the Lower Mainland. There are so many different airports to do an approach at. Who cares if it is within 75 miles. That's what there is a X-country requirement for 50 hrs for IFR and the 300 nm for the commercial....

lots of outside the comfort zone

Big Pistons Forever · Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:01 am

Good Idea

I am afraid you have been brain washed by the IFR schools. Real World IFR is not generally about approaches and holds, it is all about weather and routing.

Doing the same few approaches over and over again will help you pass your ride but will not do much to prepare you for flying the line.

Returning to the original question I firmly believe you should be a good VFR pilot before starting the IFR. A lot of the aircraft control skills, pilot decison making, interpreting weather, X-counrtry planning and using ATC are directly relavent to hte IFR environment.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:48 am

I agree with Big Pistons, and especially with this:

Better yet, night cross-country. Those 25 hours for the ATPL end up becoming quite a pain for some people...

-Adam

This caused a fair bit of heart ache for my last decade of co-pilots.

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:58 am

do it during the commercial, most employers look for it anyways and you put it towards the commercial and save money

THEICEMAN · Post by **THEICEMAN** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:39 pm

Save Money & do it before comm. It helps you build the 200Hrs!

Save some cash, but more intense! Just my 2cents!

Multi-IFR before CPL? Is this right?

Multi-IFR before CPL? Is this right?

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