Air Canada new hires

Over the Horn · Post by **Over the Horn** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:02 pm

A question for Air Canada new hires, how many of you took a pay cut to fly the "Big Iron" ?

Anonymous1 · Post by **Anonymous1** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:53 pm

How many times until you get it????? Whores get paid extremely well for a very easy job. I think the pollitically correct term is "bar sluts". They are the ones that are so stupid that they just give it away for free. In fact, whores are a lot smarter than pilots since they have representation through a pimp that will beat the living shit out of you if you try and get a free ride.

They also beat the crap out of other working girls who work their corner or undercut the market. In fcat, I defy you to find a single attractive whore in Canada who is not on crack that will go below $150 an hour with no kissing.

Maybe that's the solution....big men in Cadillacs that stomp on you if you try and work for free.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:03 pm

A1,

That's the post of the month.

stl

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:03 pm

Hey brotha,

I offer protection for my girls. One must pimp accordingly.

-istp

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:16 pm

How many times until you get it????? Whores get paid extremely well for a very easy job. I think the pollitically correct term is "bar sluts". They are the ones that are so stupid that they just give it away for free. In fact, whores are a lot smarter than pilots since they have representation through a pimp that will beat the living shit out of you if you try and get a free ride.

They also beat the crap out of other working girls who work their corner or undercut the market. In fcat, I defy you to find a single attractive whore in Canada who is not on crack that will go below $150 an hour with no kissing.

Maybe that's the solution....big men in Cadillacs that stomp on you if you try and work for free.

I think this post should be put in the "Reports of Distinction" - Jackson.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:43 pm

'In fact, whores are a lot smarter than pilots since they have representation'

LMAO!

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:46 pm

so for the benefit of any person considering taking the AC offer, can anyone tell me WHY people are taking the offer, given the statistics?

Huge long time to left seat,
Huge cut in Pay
Gotta live in YZ for some while
Company has how many billions debt load?

Comments?

Anonymous1 · Post by **Anonymous1** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:02 pm

Simple really. Current time for a new hire to advance to Captain.....1 year. You think 1 year is too long for an upgrade? Group pay of $40k in the first year then $120k per year as Captain in your second year and out of group pay. Max flying about 15 days a month.

787s arriving in 2009. 5 years from now for a new hire to hold right seat widebody. 1200 retirements in the next 10 years.

As far as debt load and bankruptcy, the cash drain has stabilized. In 2009, look for huge cost savings as contracts with ACTS, ACGS, Jazz/CMA/GGN are all outsourced or reworked. The 787s and 777s will burn far less fuel than most current long haul aircraft. The US dollar is at a record low while revenue is in CDN$ which makes it a very good time to purchase aircraft priced in US$. The higher oil goes, the more the benefit of flying these new aircraft.

It is and will remain as one of the best jobs in Canada for a pilot. Who said anything about living in YZ? Sure, you might be based here but you can commute from anywhere in the world. Senior Embraer pilots (i.e. been at AC longer than 6 months) are flying 8 - 10 days a month. Pilots are commuting from Florida, San Francisco and all over the place. Its a pretty good gig...

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:14 am

Anonymous 1

Tks for your response.
Your information varies to what I have heard.
I don't believe upgrades in one year. (Please provide examples if you have them.)
Latest bids show about 90% of intakes going to YZ on Embraer.
New hires are on reserve almost constantly, so living elsewhere is kind of a problem.
Commuting evidently is difficult because of availability of standby seats. Some Jazz friends found it difficult (until they went to WS.!!!!)

Again, tks for info, just looking for the straight facts to help a friend decide.
Anyone else have info on this???
Tks.
Snaproll

planett · Post by **planett** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:28 am

I know of a former co-worker who upgraded to E Jet Captain in less than a year, but is still stuck on flat pay until his third year. That is to say, he's making the same as all his class mates regardless of type or seat, and this results in about a $40,000 cut from his previous job until his third year. So it's true, the upgrades come quickly for now, but only on the most junior type, but with no upgrade in pay until year three.

pika · Post by **pika** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:30 am

EMB Captains getting paid $37 000?

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:48 am

snaproll20 wrote:Anonymous 1

Tks for your response.
Your information varies to what I have heard.
I don't believe upgrades in one year. (Please provide examples if you have them.)
Latest bids show about 90% of intakes going to YZ on Embraer.
New hires are on reserve almost constantly, so living elsewhere is kind of a problem.
Commuting evidently is difficult because of availability of standby seats. Some Jazz friends found it difficult (until they went to WS.!!!!)

Again, tks for info, just looking for the straight facts to help a friend decide.
Anyone else have info on this???
Tks.
Snaproll

Dude, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

There are MANY people holding left seat EMJ in their first year. I could hold it now with 17 below me and I have been here since September. Bottom EMJ Captain finished the new hire course 2 or 3 months ago.

New hires are holding blocks right away. My friend and roomie at my crash pad got a block the first month after his line check.

Commuting is not that bad. I commute from YWG and have never been bumped going to Toronto and have been bumped off 3 flights to YWG in 8 months. I have always either gotten on the next flight or used the reciprocal j/s agreement with WS.

These are the FACTS.

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:57 pm

disco stu

tks for the info. I have "NO IDEA" what I am talking about because I am getting contradictory info from long-time AC people.

Is Planett correct and you can be an Embraer Captain but still on $38,000 for 3 years and then what?????

Freighter · Post by **Freighter** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:12 pm

There are no EMJ Captains making 38000 (if he is flying as a Captain on the E jet and getting paid 38k, he should file a grievance)...Lowest EMJ Capt pay is around 115/hr (I think, don't have the contract in front of me). Also, no one is flying around as an EMJ Captain who has been at the company for less than a year...a few guys hired in the last 6 months or so were awarded the left seat EMJ after the latest bid, but it is very unlikely that they will train into it before next year. We were told on our PIT course by the ACPA people that they were going to try to avoid upgrading anyone until probation was done, which means at least 14 months from date of hire, in many cases more...

Also, why is there no option for the initial payscale being a raise...I am sure I know of at least one guy who was making less before coming to AC....

TFE731 · Post by **TFE731** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:15 pm

snaproll20 wrote:
Is Planett correct and you can be an Embraer Captain but still on $38,000 for 3 years and then what?????

He is incorrect. As a captain flat sal. lasts for one year ONLY! then off to 6 figures you go. It will take you that year to get trained up even if you can hold it earlier (and many can) because of an agreement to hold off Captain upgrades until probabation (1 year) is complete.

PS - there are plenty of pilots holding EMJ Capt. since this recent bid and all hired WITHIN a year ago.

TFE731 · Post by **TFE731** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:17 pm

Freighter, looks like we both posted within minutes of each other. Hence why it looks like I repeated some of your info.

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:11 pm

maybe I am a little dense, but what I am hearing is that a person is stuck for the first year in the right seat, even if qualified for the left seat and the pay is very low for that time.

I have seen AC payscales and they do not support some of the info being presented here.

The most important thing is, "When, at what point, does a person get to the 6 figure payscale?"

TFE731 · Post by **TFE731** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:23 pm

snaproll20 wrote:maybe I am a little dense, but what I am hearing is that a person is stuck for the first year in the right seat, even if qualified for the left seat and the pay is very low for that time.

Yes. Take into account that you will not be assigned a left seat position as a newhire. So by the time a bid comes around, you bid left seat, get awarded, wait for training, etc etc, a year goes by mighty fast.

snaproll20 wrote:The most important thing is, "When, at what point, does a person get to the 6 figure payscale?"

With respect to our CURRENT discussion here (not considering several other positions in the company that pay 6 figures including several FO positions) you get paid the 6 figures once you are qualified and flying as an EMJ Capt. whether that takes 12 months, 15 months, you get the point I hope.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:39 pm

Cathay pays $65 an hour for a 747 FO to start

Emirates pays $56 an hour for a 340 FO to start

Air Canada pays $38 an hour for a EMB FO to start.

Hmmmm.......I guess the whores are everywhere. Unfortunately, it is an Industry problem that is not isolated to just Air Canada.

Source airlinepilotpay.com based on 82 hour month.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:45 pm

snaproll20 wrote:so for the benefit of any person considering taking the AC offer, can anyone tell me WHY people are taking the offer, given the statistics?

Huge long time to left seat,
Huge cut in Pay
Gotta live in YZ for some while
Company has how many billions debt load?

Comments?

There is a direct entry Captain from Jazz being trained right now. Upgrades of less than one year for guys off the street are taking place right now. The latest bid shows virtually all present EMB FO's either upgraded to Captain or moved on to other aircraft or other bases. The airplane has been on the property for only two years. Not sure who your source is but the info you are getting is not accurate.

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:31 pm

thanks everyone.

So I conclude that a new hire COULD be be sitting left seat EMB in about one year, at a six figure salary. (If the bid is successful etc.)

Is that basically correct?

TKS again.

Any more info?

185/310 · Post by **185/310** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:45 pm

Jaques Strappe wrote:

Cathay pays $65 an hour for a 747 FO to start

Emirates pays $56 an hour for a 340 FO to start

Air Canada pays $38 an hour for a EMB FO to start.

Hmmmm.......I guess the whores are everywhere. Unfortunately, it is an Industry problem that is not isolated to just Air Canada.

Source airlinepilotpay.com based on 82 hour month.

I believe Cathay and Emirates have very little if no tax to those saleries as well. Also most expenses are covered with those companies. Makes a big difference in the yearly take home.

YYC the place to be · Post by **YYC the place to be** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:22 pm

WOW!! 25000+ a year pay cut ha ha....shitty thing is you will be so board out of your tree in five years your going to want to kill yourself. not to be a dick or anything, but I'm so glad my PPC says I can land my airplane. Just my opinion though. If you would rather be a computer systems engineer instead of a real pilot, I guess it is worth 25000+ ouch

P.S. you sold your sole to AC now you can't call yourselves pilots anymore. What a way to go out

SJS is a killer of pilots

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:43 pm

not to be a dick or anything, but I'm so glad my PPC says I can land my airplane.

What airplanes do AC own that the pilots don't land them?

YYC the place to be · Post by **YYC the place to be** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:11 pm

The relief pilots I'm talking about. The 777 and 340/330 your PPC reads that you can only fly above 10000... I thought of all people you would know that Cat

Air Canada new hires

How much of a pay cut did you take when you got hired at A.C.?

Air Canada new hires