Air Canada new hires

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:55 pm

The relief pilots I'm talking about. The 777 and 340/330 your PPC reads that you can only fly above 10000... I thought of all people you would know that Cat

I can be just as dumb as any other pilot sometimes.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:32 pm

Ok so why does it take 5 plus years to make left seat at Jazz, and only 1 year at AC? Seems odd considering that most people seem to want to work for AC rather than Jazz. And if Jazz is loosing so many, why such slow movement, or are only the F/O's leaving? Are Captains at Jazz actually happy to stay there?

Anonymous1 · Post by **Anonymous1** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:29 pm

Do you actually read the posts before you ask a question? Retirements and fleet growth at AC means people move up. Minimal growth opportunities and a younger workforce at Jazz means things happen slower there.

I'm sure some people are happy and some are unhappy at any company you go to. Its all relative to your expectations and whether you are seeking lifestyle or salary. Some guys are happy flying summers in a Super Cub while others need there ego stroked with a 747. Some pilots will complain no matter what. Personally, I'd much rather be at Oshkosh this week anyways...

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:55 am

YYC the place to be wrote:WOW!! 25000+ a year pay cut ha ha....shitty thing is you will be so board out of your tree in five years your going to want to kill yourself. not to be a dick or anything, but I'm so glad my PPC says I can land my airplane. Just my opinion though. If you would rather be a computer systems engineer instead of a real pilot, I guess it is worth 25000+ ouch

P.S. you sold your sole to AC now you can't call yourselves pilots anymore. What a way to go out

SJS is a killer of pilots

That has to be the most juevenile post I have seen on here. Your argument would hold water if you were to spend your career as an RP, the fact of the matter is, if, and that is a big if (because there are way more FO positions up for grabs) you wound up with an RP position to start, you probably won't be there for long. I am very happy to see that you won't be applying for any positions because it may mean you can't land. As far as being a "computer engineer", you have simply displayed your lack of experience as most people who have been in the airline industry for awhile will tell you, the actual manipulation of controls, whether with the autopilot or not, is simply a small fraction of what the job actually entails. For the most part, people apply for airline jobs so they can have a life down the road and enjoy a decent salary, not so much to "land" airplanes.

People bitch and complain about the starting salary and while I agree that it should not be the case, it is sadly an industry standard that has been around longer than you have. Hopefully that will change. However, for those who have the ability to look beyond next week, the reward can be working 10 days a month while earning a nice six figure salary. You also get to leave work at work where it belongs and enjoy your time off. There are not many places where you can do that while living in a country you actually want to live in.

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:46 am

Hmmmmmm do I detect some attitude.?

(Actually, a computer 'engineer' is probably paid more than AC pilots in the first few years. Try "systems follower", or "systems manager". )

I don't think anyone signs on with any major airline expecting to do much hand-flying anymore, so it should hardly come as a surprise.

ImprovedClimb · Post by **ImprovedClimb** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:09 am

RobZombie · Post by **RobZombie** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:08 am

Mr. Climb,

I don't think that Mr. "The place to Be" is employed at WestJet.

However everyone at WestJet thanks you for your insults!!

Just glad I'll never have to sit next to the likes of you!!

Cheers

RZ

P.S. Just wondering if it worked, I mean after you posted that did your dick grow those few precious inches that you promised your wife??
If it didn't you may want to try this..
http://www.enzyte.com/

But I will warn you it's no fun being treated like an object by the ladies

YYC the place to be · Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:41 am

WOW! I had no idea that I would be attacked like this. I was not directly point the finger at you Jaques Strappe, are you telling me that going to the airlines will make me an experienced pilot, or flying auto everything makes me a more experienced pilot? I really enjoy my job, in fact I love it. Please don't automatically assume that I have not been in the industry for as long as you..... That is juevenile

And saying you are a computer engineer doesn't mean I have a lack of experience, might means I have seen it....been there, done that kind of thing? Don’t jump to conclusions please

Like I said in my original post...."just my opinion" you want to go to the airlines and take the pay cut? In my “opinion” that is paying your dues twice....suit yourself. That doesn’t make any sense to me "just my opinion", and not an attack on and individual. I am going to continue in my job that I love, that is not boring, not take the pay cut, and continue to make more and more money as time goes on....once again just my opinion.

As for you Improved Climb if I have offended you and you want to attack me personally then you can PM me. Your personal attack in uncalled for considering your lack of knowledge of who I am and who I fly for. Have you ever stopped to consider that there are 2 sides to this argument and you might be the one who is brainwashed? I don't fly for WJ and I do make over 40K, and just for the record I love my city. This is my home and you don't see me bashing your town because that is just not the right thing to do.

I guess I need to remind you again, when I said "bored out of your tree" it is "just my opinion" wow you need to read this stuff guys

once again in “my opinion” I will be happy with my greaser in GP ten years from now, and the greaser wherever in the world I am landing at;) I love to fly. I have been in the industry for a while now, and I have seen and done all types of flying. Unlike a lot of my peers in the industry it is not just a job for me....and for your benefit I will add "yet" to that sentence.

This forum in all about your opinion not about personal attacks on people you disagree with, come on guys....lets be adult about this and make it a conversation instead of a fight.

Blue Skies guys!

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:27 pm

YYC the place to be wrote:WOW! I had no idea that I would be attacked like this. I was not directly point the finger at you Jaques Strappe, are you telling me that going to the airlines will make me an experienced pilot, or flying auto everything makes me a more experienced pilot? I really enjoy my job, in fact I love it. Please don't automatically assume that I have not been in the industry for as long as you..... That is juevenile And saying you are a computer engineer doesn't mean I have a lack of experience, might means I have seen it....been there, done that kind of thing? Don’t jump to conclusions please

Like I said in my original post...."just my opinion" you want to go to the airlines and take the pay cut? In my “opinion” that is paying your dues twice....suit yourself. That doesn’t make any sense to me "just my opinion", and not an attack on and individual. I am going to continue in my job that I love, that is not boring, not take the pay cut, and continue to make more and more money as time goes on....once again just my opinion.

Blue Skies guys!

Place to be.........I never said that going to the airlines will make you a more experienced pilot. I did say that your comment about an Airline Pilot being a computer engineer displays the fact that you haven't done the job. If you have, then I would say you probably did not do it very well. I didn't say that I have been flying longer than you either, I did say that low starting salaries have been around longer. I am not saying that being an Airline Pilot is the be all and end all and I will admit, it was not my first choice of what I wanted to do in this industry. Your comments probably brought about varied responses due to the way you posted. Very matter of fact. I am happy to hear that you are having fun in your chosen path, there are many of us who are also enjoying our paths and may not appreciate "off the cuff " remarks that have no real merit to them. Just my opinion.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:01 pm

Children, childern, children.

For as long as the major airlines have existed they are the most sought after positions in aviation.

As aircraft have evolved the argument about " flying " them really has no merit all that has changed is how you control them, to compare a B777 or A340 to a DC3 is meaningless because they have very little in common.

YYC the place to be · Post by **YYC the place to be** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:03 pm

Thank you for the response JS. One thing I still don't understand is how you think I was probably not managing systems and computer screens (flying) very well.

I admitted that you are not really a flying pilot more, but more of a systems manager/ computer engineer/ whatever. You are someone who inputs information into a computer, watches a screen, and the computer flies. If I am wrong then please correct me because in my experience that about sums up flying at AC.

nice "just my opinion" at the end there

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:17 pm

YYC

I think what JS was getting at is that a Job at AC (or any airline for that matter). Is more than just pushing button and knowing how to use the autopilot. There is the decision making factor, CRM, using your resources like Dispatch, and SOC to relay information for a smother operation. Flying around weather. maintenance, Go, no go., etc. I see your point in that yes as you move up the latter. the "flying" aspect does get easier due to the automation. However your responsibily as a pilot is still the same. The aircraft is only as smart or as stupid as the people(s) operating them. If flying was the only thing that is required of pilots than monkeys would be flying airplanes.........Now where is my banana.

Cheers

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:20 pm

YYC

What I was trying to convey is that sitting in front of an autopilot monitoring systems is only a small part of the actual job. Not much different than sitting in a DC3 without said autopilot. The principal way in which we fly hasn't changed, only the way which flight controls are manipulated. Not to mention that we can and do turn all the magic off when the situation dictates.

The fact that I am explaining this to you is what leads me to believe what I said earlier.

YYC the place to be · Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:20 pm

JS and DH, thanks for "your" explanations.

JS, the fact you are explaining your take on this means nothing except that you have answered my question, not that I have no experience in this type of flying. If you are happy we can leave all this and say we had a nice little debate, and agree to disagree.

Unfortunately my position on the automation of newer aircraft has left me in the minority of the industry, and my position on AC and the way pilots make the move is a soft spot for pilots including many of my friends who have made the move. So this isn't the first time I have defended my position. I am not jealous of these people I just hate, and I mean HATE the fact that we have to make such a large sacrifice to, as we say "move up" in the industry (if that is one's desired path) it is heart breaking for me to see fellow pilots and friends do this to themselves when it shouldn't be and has no reason to be this way.

Supply and demand......what a bitch

Oh well I had fun;)

Cheers

BigB · Post by **BigB** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:51 am

ImprovedClimb wrote:YYC is the place to be....Hmmm, sounds funny to me.

You are probably wroting this post from your basement apartment or your sisters couch, either way you are totally brainwashed. Are you telling me that the 40,000 a year at WJ is enough to sustain living in that overpriced prairie city you call home? (Don't tell me it is in the mountains because I lived there and it sucks).

To speak on being bored out of your tree in 5 years might touch on your career hopes because you have nothing to look forward to other than 30 minute turns in a small narrowbody airliner. By the time year ten rolls around you will be hanging on every rumor you can get your hands on (ie 787's, Zoom aquisition) because that is all you have. Don't worry about not being able to take off and land because you will never fly anything large enough to require a third pilot. So when my young collegues are enjoying a relaxing layover some where that you have never been they know that they will eventually follow normal career progression and enjoy all of the benefits of a full career at a legacy carrier. I'm sure they won't be jealous of someone like your self putting another notch in their belt for a "greaser" they had in Grand Prairie.

Enjoy the 737... I flew it for a couple of years as a Captain and it is a beautiful aircraft. Would have liked to have flown it for a few more, just not 30.

PEACE!

Yikes.....

Do you have some vacation stored-up? Suggest you use some if you do. You stike me as a younger "Tony". Even he has matured into someone somewhat reasonable lately.

Sorry Tony, had to get that in.

ImprovedClimb · Post by **ImprovedClimb** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:17 pm

Rubberbiscuit · Post by **Rubberbiscuit** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:02 pm

Improved Climb:

I am glad to see the reply to your own post! We all get cought up in the moment...... I am guity as charged. After chasing airplanes and paycheques for nearly fifteen years I finally came to realize that the size or type of airplane you fly does not make you a better or worse person. Bigger paycheques are convenient of course but does not automatically mean a happier life!! You have to decide what job/flying/airplane is going to give you the pay/lifestyle/schedule you want and can be content with. The answer will not be the same for everyone and will not make them any more or less of a pilot/person.

The end.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:24 am

YYC

The debate about automation aside, I do agree with you 100% about the sacrifices and pay inequities associated with our profession. All salaries, not just starting ones, are too low in my opinion. This debate however, has also been beaten to death. At least we know that going in and can hopefully make an educated decision. It has worked out very well for some. I do think however that singling out Air Canada is not exactly fair with regard to this practice.

I respect the fact that you may not want to fly an automated aircraft for whatever reason and wish you the best in your pursuit.

Over the Horn · Post by **Over the Horn** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:22 am

I do think however that singling out Air Canada is not exactly fair with regard to this practice.

This post was not to single out Air Canada but to see how much of a pay cut people were willing to take to sign on with a major airline the same could be said for West Jet or any other large air carrier for that matter.

I am finaly making decent money in the bush/charter side of the industry and was kinda shocked to find out that if I decided to try for a job with a large air carrier I would have to be willing to take a $30000+ pay cut, Mortgage and truck payments would be hard to make for the first few years though I'm sure the lifestyle and all the other little perks that eventually come with the job would be nice. Maybe the real question is, was it worth it?

Air Canada new hires

How much of a pay cut did you take when you got hired at A.C.?

More sugar in the cool aid please

Re: More sugar in the cool aid please

I am Sorry