oh it's ALL GOOD NEWS until...

[...]

...the industry doors close one at a time and jobs become less and less and the employers remember the dirtbags in this industry that didn't extend the smallest amount of professional courtesy. Now, others are paying for it.

I heard about one person that only flew 3 flights before he packed up and went elsewhere. Don't take the job IF you don't think you will like it. The company paid 10K for his training...although I believe a company fronting the money is the price of doing business, I don't agree with pilots stiffing any company in such an unprofessional manner.

Here is an opportunity to make a statement that a handshake is thicker than ink. (maybe I'm too old school)

[pika]

I heard about one person that only flew 3 flights before he packed up and went elsewhere.

I heard Bin Laden runs a 7/11. Even saw pictures. Two sides to every story.

[...]

I heard about one person that only flew 3 flights before he packed up and went elsewhere.

I heard Bin Laden runs a 7/11. Even saw pictures. Two sides to every story.

Actually dear pika...there are always 3 sides...yours, theirs and then there's the truth.

[Uncle Leo]

...the industry doors close one at a time and jobs become less and less and the employers remember the dirtbags in this industry that didn't extend the smallest amount of professional courtesy. Now, others are paying for it.

I heard about one person that only flew 3 flights before he packed up and went elsewhere. Don't take the job IF you don't think you will like it. The company paid 10K for his training...although I believe a company fronting the money is the price of doing business, I don't agree with pilots stiffing any company in such an unprofessional manner.

Here is an opportunity to make a statement that a handshake is thicker than ink. (maybe I'm too old school)

Easssssy big fella. That door runs swings both ways. Let me tell you this, as someone who believes his honour and his word are all he has, this humble pie bullshit is getting old. Telling companies, and, get this, meaning that I really do want to be a company man, stay the course and do my job is getting old. Getting shafted at the expense of my word is getting old.

Telling organizations that I want to make the company into something, I want to grow and become something in their company, then they turn around and go back on their own word to me. My sympathies are not with many operators out there anymore. I can't blame some pilots for shafting companies after seeing what is done to them out there. I've had my handshake jammed up my ass enough, thank you.


HELLO.

[...]

Uncle Leo...persevere my friend, it is the ultimate Victory!

[co-joe]

I agree 100% with you BD, but it still blows me away how in this day and age with pilots having options for other treatment across the street how some employers treat their pilots.

You get hired on one deal, and then a few people leave and now your sweet 40 hour per week job, goes to 60 or more, then they want you to fly your days off, and some person always bends over and does it so management expects it from everyone.

Then maintenance, crew rest, days off, pre diems, vacation requests and any/every other perk seem to go out the window, but we're shit on if we're not loyal.

I almost couldn't believe the memo I saw in one of our department's office the other day. Some of these pilots are away from home nearly 100 hours per week (some weeks not all...yet). Not an exaggeration, they reset in other cities and get 6 hours a day in their home town ( so on paper they're working 30 hours a week but is sitting in a hotel a few hundred miles from home time off to you?), and now they're being asked to groom their own airplanes at then end of their shifts!


I don't advocate quitting 3 days after a PPC, and I've heard of worse. One guy I heard of, faxed his resignation into the CP while still in the US after his sim PPC was done without any notice. That's inexcusable behavior in my books.

What an industry...

[newpilotwife]

Hubby told me of a few cases of companies he's worked for where the new pilot (new to the company, but experienced) stepped off the plane (as passenger) in a third world country, surveyed the airport while doing a 360, then caught the next plane home. Guess that comes a close second to the guy quitting after taking the sim . . .

[T.J.]

I quit after 2 months of flying left seat in a Navaho. After 140 hrs of flying and no salary I ask to be paid. " I am going away for four days and when I come back you will have it" he said. The next day I made a phone call to another company and got a another job. Now I demanded that I be paid before he leaves. He gave me $3000 and said "I put a little something extra in there for you".

[CAL]

BIRD......should have hired me!

But seriously that sucks....

I think also that employers should rely more on the person than the time in the book....

[. .]

Don't take the job IF you don't think you will like it.

That's total bullshit. How many times have you arrived to a job that seemed great from the outside and in the interview and turned to be a complete gong show? Clearly no one would take a job they didn't think they could handle. As for sinking 10k into a person and having them leave a week or two later, perhaps that company needs to look more closely at the way they operate. There's obviously some very clear reasons people would leave in a situation like that.

[Dust Devil]

BIRD......should have hired me!

But seriously that sucks....

I think also that employers should rely more on the person than the time in the book....

This is very true. When looking at resumes I pretty much look at hours only to see if they meet insurance requirements. After that it's all about the individual and how well they would fit in personality wise.

[...]

Don't take the job IF you don't think you will like it.

That's total bullshit. How many times have you arrived to a job that seemed great from the outside and in the interview and turned to be a complete gong show? Clearly no one would take a job they didn't think they could handle. As for sinking 10k into a person and having them leave a week or two later, perhaps that company needs to look more closely at the way they operate. There's obviously some very clear reasons people would leave in a situation like that.

Meh...thanks for the input but bro...I don't see it that way. I guess I'm just olde school. I stick it out and don't look for an easyway out with anything I do.

In the end(less) all companies have their issues some more than others. So IMHO...the grass is never greener on the other side. However, when choosing/target a company, I look for a positive working environment vs. $. I'd rather work with great guys and put up with less than par conditions than work with a bunch of asses.

So far...the people I worked with in the past and present have been awesome. It's a formula that works for me.

Cheers

[desksgo]

You would love concentration camps. Shitty work conditions but all yer buddies are there, so at least you're in it together.

So birddog, I just don't buy it. Yes, if you have to be at a remote location away from some of the better things in life, a good crew and comradery can't be beat. But that doesn't excuse shitty operators and no one here should settle for any less.

[wallypilot]

Don't take the job IF you don't think you will like it.

Exactly....i have applied for positions and when I found out the real story about the job (maybe crap sked, or maybe sub-par pay, or whatever) I have rescinded my application. And I am not experienced enough to command the market, by any means....but I know that if I am not happy in my job, I'll be looking for something to move onto very quickly.

Meh...thanks for the input but bro...I don't see it that way. I guess I'm just olde school. I stick it out and don't look for an easyway out with anything I do.

In the end(less) all companies have their issues some more than others. So IMHO...the grass is never greener on the other side. However, when choosing/target a company, I look for a positive working environment vs. $. I'd rather work with great guys and put up with less than par conditions than work with a bunch of asses.

So far...the people I worked with in the past and present have been awesome. It's a formula that works for me.

Cheers

Couldn't agree with you more. I have applied the same strategies when looking for a job...and it's worked great. Always been with good people and always earned par or better in terms of salary (usually better).

[wallypilot]

Don't take the job IF you don't think you will like it.

That's total bullshit. How many times have you arrived to a job that seemed great from the outside and in the interview and turned to be a complete gong show? Clearly no one would take a job they didn't think they could handle. As for sinking 10k into a person and having them leave a week or two later, perhaps that company needs to look more closely at the way they operate. There's obviously some very clear reasons people would leave in a situation like that.

The reason this happens is because all that most guys think about is the type of equipmnet they will be flying.....they don't look at the position as a job....it's an aircraft type. They don't think about the fact that, this is a job, and there are many aspects to every position...like benefits, like quality of management....like the people you work with. Pilots are a freakin' wierd bunch. So few other industries are like this. In what other industry, would a person look at a job that pays $34K per year, (say they are currently earning 50-70K in the same city),and say, "hmmm...that seems smart...I think I'll move to that company."

Or similarly, that job looks like shit, but hey, i'll get a shiny new BMW as my company car....I'll take it!

Me, I look at it in terms of the job first, then the mission profile, then then the aircraft type. It's worked great so far. Every job I have had has been great.

just my .02

[...]

You would love concentration camps. Shitty work conditions but all yer buddies are there, so at least you're in it together.

So birddog, I just don't buy it. Yes, if you have to be at a remote location away from some of the better things in life, a good crew and comradery can't be beat. But that doesn't excuse shitty operators and no one here should settle for any less.

Ok...nice counter. So it's fair to say every senior pilot today that is presently working for the best company in Canada with the best 'working conditions' is Air Canada is happy and no complaints?

The present day working environment @ Air Canada mainline is pewtrid.
Blue vs. Red...!?!?! I'm not sure about you...but I'm too busy to listen about the "me too" clauses etc etc...

Whatever. Your points are heard and the are valid.

I prefer to stick with the devil I know rather than go over to the unknown and lateral move.

If anyone here has a reason to bitch...I think I would make the top 10 with VALID, documented arguments. However, it's shitty what happenes to good people like you just recently.

BUt hear me now. There is one thing those more fortunate, and that seem to have an easier path in their careers than you have had.

HOWEVER,

You are surrounded by a small group of 'brothers' that will drop anything to be by your side when you need us to be, Mr. Desksgo. Not many can say that...OR even understand the tremendous weight these words I have said carry..AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK