Ok Kag at what point do you stop? There are runways over 12,000' are you going to taxi all the way or take a 6,000' intersection?
You can be over 1000' in the air by the time you have reached the end of the runway so there is no way you could make it down even if you wanted to.
The balance is how fast you climb verses decend.
Lurch
YXU, why doing intersection takeoffs?
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With the airplanes KAG flies, when you call V1, you going flying. End of story. SOP. No time to play the "can I get it back on the runway?" game. After you're in the air, and all the check lists are complete, then you decide what to do next...but...you are launching after V1....that's the beauty of the thing...no guess work.
Of course, a little common sense also enters into the equation here. IF there is 12000 feet of runway remaining, and the problem after V1 is catastrophic, and the pilot has not rotated, the pilot could elect to just roll to a stop. But V1 is predicated on accelerate/stop distance and the usually (almost always) adhered to practice is to continue the take off.
Of course, a little common sense also enters into the equation here. IF there is 12000 feet of runway remaining, and the problem after V1 is catastrophic, and the pilot has not rotated, the pilot could elect to just roll to a stop. But V1 is predicated on accelerate/stop distance and the usually (almost always) adhered to practice is to continue the take off.
Last edited by Doc on Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If its not good airmanship that what kind is it?Doc wrote:Nobody's accusing anybody of poor airmanship by taking intersection take offs....but it is not using good airmanship. With me?
I know you have more experience in your pinky finger than I have in my whole body but when someone says that I am not showing good airmanship when I am conducting intersection take offs or teaching them I perk my ears up.
What you need to know is, how to get what you need to know.
This is not a retreat. Its an advance to the rear.
There are only 10 people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
This is not a retreat. Its an advance to the rear.
There are only 10 people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
Im just wondering where do we draw the line? Lets just say I want a full backtrack at airports that handle a number of large aircraft im going to piss off every heavy driver wanting to land cause little me Mr. Hotshot 172 wants to backtrack 4000' on a 8000'+ runway.Doc wrote:Would it make you happier if I referred to it as "better" airmanship to use the whole length?
What you need to know is, how to get what you need to know.
This is not a retreat. Its an advance to the rear.
There are only 10 people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
This is not a retreat. Its an advance to the rear.
There are only 10 people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
If you want to backtrack, there is no "heavy driver" out there who would fault you for it. You have to decide how far to take it. Me? I'd weigh the situation and go from there. If there is a Boeing product on final, and I have 4000 feet in which to launch my 172, I'd launch. But circumstances always alter cases. If you're an instructor, you owe it to your student to demonstrate good airmanship where ever possible. And common sense as well, however. Making another aircraft overshoot while you're backtracking would be shitty airmanship as well. It's a judgment call.
Lurch, You asked at what point do I draw the line? Too many variables to mention. Type of plane, performance, weather conditions, single VS twin, terrain at the end of runway.
I have taught out of 1600' strips, and was trained at 10000' strips. I used all of it most of the time. If I left 1000' behind me, had 8000' in front of me, I personally was more then happy. If I had of blown the engine, landed straight ahead, went off the end and was killed, the final report would have mentioned about my poor decision making and poor choice to do an intersection takeoff. I would have been a statistic. My own damn fault.
Niwre,
In this thread, I am talking about London. It has a taxiway all the way to the button, so no heavy is going to be bitching at you. Also, you have to do what is safe for you, the hell the traffic on final. Yes I’d be pissed if I had to do a go around cause of a 172 back tracking, then again, ATC or myself is at fault for crowding the field.
I saw what I thought was an unsafe practice at a training facility. Hot summer day, poor performance, and no need to be doing so many intersection takeoffs just to save 2 mins of taxi time. You’re teaching bad habits and displaying poor decision-making.
Argue away.
I have taught out of 1600' strips, and was trained at 10000' strips. I used all of it most of the time. If I left 1000' behind me, had 8000' in front of me, I personally was more then happy. If I had of blown the engine, landed straight ahead, went off the end and was killed, the final report would have mentioned about my poor decision making and poor choice to do an intersection takeoff. I would have been a statistic. My own damn fault.
Niwre,
In this thread, I am talking about London. It has a taxiway all the way to the button, so no heavy is going to be bitching at you. Also, you have to do what is safe for you, the hell the traffic on final. Yes I’d be pissed if I had to do a go around cause of a 172 back tracking, then again, ATC or myself is at fault for crowding the field.
I saw what I thought was an unsafe practice at a training facility. Hot summer day, poor performance, and no need to be doing so many intersection takeoffs just to save 2 mins of taxi time. You’re teaching bad habits and displaying poor decision-making.
Argue away.
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
