I'm just wondering the thought on using 122.75 in the lower mainland. I am completely in favor of having a monitor frequency for our practice areas, (which by the way, just happens to be a published Air to Air frequency in the states), but i'm starting to realize that it has hardly any value what-so-ever. I'll be completely honest, i am sick and tired of hearing everybody's life story on the radio while i'm trying to teach somebody how to fly. I can only hear someone say they're over cresent island (when they're not) so many times.
The radio seems to be our crutch. I've noticed the trend is to broadcast your position, feel like you're safe now, and ignore looking out for other airplanes. I think this is the mind set of a lot of aviatiors in this area. I think we'd be safer if we just simply kept a good lookout, and then use the radio in conflict situations (and by doing this i think we'd set a much better example for our students for when they get out flying in the real world where you don't know what frequency everybody is monitoring).
It also seems that it just happens to be certain flight schools who teach to broadcast their position way too often. (aka- aircraft with the ident C-*MA*.... you guys know who you are). Can somebody explain the value of this?
122.75 in Lower Mainland
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister
I agree that sometimes the pilots reporting in a practice area are a little zealous when reporting. When I report in a practice area my student and I advise our alt and position and type of maneuvers. If someone else is in the same sort of area we work between ourselves who is going to work where.
For example your location says CYNJ so you probably go to the Glen Valley area. If you advise that you will stay east of Cresent Island then advise your traffic to stay to the west of the island. You know that he is west and you are to stay east so no life stories and horrible position reports.
Do you ever consider going to the practice area east of CYXX?
For example your location says CYNJ so you probably go to the Glen Valley area. If you advise that you will stay east of Cresent Island then advise your traffic to stay to the west of the island. You know that he is west and you are to stay east so no life stories and horrible position reports.
Do you ever consider going to the practice area east of CYXX?
good_idea
Keep the wheel side down
Keep the wheel side down
Actually, the beauty of a school in Langley is the fact that we border our practice area. Unlike students from ZBB, who are 20nm from the practice area, our students don't waste any time transiting. For those students from ZBB, thats a 40 NM round trip too and from the practice area on every booking that isn't in the circuit. That works out too 27 minutes on every flight which works out too an extra at least 20 hours on a private license. We get many students from ZBB who start their commercial out here at CYNJ who have 90+ hours on the private pilot license. They are usually pretty unhappy when i tell them about the transit fact.good_idea wrote:
Do you ever consider going to the practice area east of CYXX?
I know that that time can be useful in some areas regarding diversion practice, etc. But the reason i don't want to use CYA 182 (sumas) is for the above mentioned reason. Our students would be a good 25nm from the training area. Most of the time we venture our airwork lessons East of Mission because ZBB flyers don't make it out that far. But the good news is we get to start a lesson 3 miles from our airport.
GF.
I would agree with Altiplano on that.. I trained out of ZBB for my PPL, and it was finished in a lot less time than 90 hrs.. I did have the practice area south of Cloverdale at the time though.
Regarding the radio use on 122.75: Where the F*@#!!! is Glen Valley International??? It takes a lot of restraint to not say anything, due to the fact I have a student on board. Anyways, I just keep a good lookout and encourage my guys to do the same. You hit it on the head when you mentioned innacurate position reports.
Regarding the radio use on 122.75: Where the F*@#!!! is Glen Valley International??? It takes a lot of restraint to not say anything, due to the fact I have a student on board. Anyways, I just keep a good lookout and encourage my guys to do the same. You hit it on the head when you mentioned innacurate position reports.
I teach my lot to say little and look a lot.
I hate to hear "... any conflicting traffic please advise...". This statement belongs in the boondocks where it's unlikely you'll meet someone and so it's a surprise if you get a response.
In the lower mainland practice areas there is almost always conflicting traffic so why bother expanding the call with this sentence?
122.75 was put in due to the complaints of the Georgia Straits traffic among others.
I can see the time when the Americans start to put up a fuss due to the excessive use of a frequency they are always to be heard from.
It's common for confusion to exist between traffic reporting somewhere in Wa and in Glen Valley.
What is very very important is that 123.2 exists both at Fort Langley and Mission.
I have heard many position reports over Mission on 122.75, is this correct?
Maybe, above 1500 feet this might make sense, below 1500 123.2. I have also used 123.2 in Stave Lake and heard traffic reporting on this frequency both there and over Mission.
The PC12 based at Fort Langley has already had two near misses I am aware of. Be sure to report on 123.2 when in the vicinity of this aerodrome.
I am told that training school aircraft are now unwelcome at Fort Langley and private aircraft require prior permission.
123.5 is still in use in the King George - Cloverdale area. I always call passing through this airspace at lower levels.
Some of the ultralights don't show up on radar, but most of them are on 123.5.
I think the 90 hours assertion has more to do with the quality of instruction than the 20 mile run to Glen Valley.
I hate to see one of my students exceed 60, I don't think I'm doing a good job if that happens.
Like other items around the 'AWARENESS' philosophy, I think the radio crutch is not as good as a good lookout especially as a high percentage of position reports are inaccurate to say the least!
I hate to hear "... any conflicting traffic please advise...". This statement belongs in the boondocks where it's unlikely you'll meet someone and so it's a surprise if you get a response.
In the lower mainland practice areas there is almost always conflicting traffic so why bother expanding the call with this sentence?
122.75 was put in due to the complaints of the Georgia Straits traffic among others.
I can see the time when the Americans start to put up a fuss due to the excessive use of a frequency they are always to be heard from.
It's common for confusion to exist between traffic reporting somewhere in Wa and in Glen Valley.
What is very very important is that 123.2 exists both at Fort Langley and Mission.
I have heard many position reports over Mission on 122.75, is this correct?
Maybe, above 1500 feet this might make sense, below 1500 123.2. I have also used 123.2 in Stave Lake and heard traffic reporting on this frequency both there and over Mission.
The PC12 based at Fort Langley has already had two near misses I am aware of. Be sure to report on 123.2 when in the vicinity of this aerodrome.
I am told that training school aircraft are now unwelcome at Fort Langley and private aircraft require prior permission.
123.5 is still in use in the King George - Cloverdale area. I always call passing through this airspace at lower levels.
Some of the ultralights don't show up on radar, but most of them are on 123.5.
I think the 90 hours assertion has more to do with the quality of instruction than the 20 mile run to Glen Valley.
I hate to see one of my students exceed 60, I don't think I'm doing a good job if that happens.
Like other items around the 'AWARENESS' philosophy, I think the radio crutch is not as good as a good lookout especially as a high percentage of position reports are inaccurate to say the least!
I agree that another frequency besides 122.75 would be nice for glen valley. Frequently, I've turned the radio down when hearing americans having 40 minute conversations with friends. Still, I don't understand why anyone would have a personal conversation on a very public frequency. Personally, if I'm looking to talk about something totally unrelated to flying I'd switch up or 'go guns' or pick a descrete frequency in advance.
Position reports don't need to include what type of stalls you are doing. Simply the block of airspace you will be in. (exceptions include precautionarys, because more people can use the fields if they can predict the pattern you are flying)
Conflicts will always advise - if they are even listening, so don't always ask them too. That saying is less cool than 'roger that'.
Position reports don't need to include what type of stalls you are doing. Simply the block of airspace you will be in. (exceptions include precautionarys, because more people can use the fields if they can predict the pattern you are flying)
Conflicts will always advise - if they are even listening, so don't always ask them too. That saying is less cool than 'roger that'.
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I hate the Americans having 40 min radio convo's! Hehehehee..My gf flipped out at them one day when they were having a convo. about sewage!! WTF!!
Yes, the glen valley international thing is fricking annyoing..Why not reference Silverdale if to the north? Glen Valley Airfield itself (VFR checkpoint)etc. There's plenty of good things to cross reference in there.
People in the Glen can be pretty brutal with Fort Langley! Please call and let us know you are coming thorough.. When i'm flying on floats I usually call on 122.75 letting people know i'll be bombing through shortly. and on 123.20. Also, whats with the postion reports saying you are somewhere ..when in acutal fact you are nowhere near the position you described.
Yes, the glen valley international thing is fricking annyoing..Why not reference Silverdale if to the north? Glen Valley Airfield itself (VFR checkpoint)etc. There's plenty of good things to cross reference in there.
People in the Glen can be pretty brutal with Fort Langley! Please call and let us know you are coming thorough.. When i'm flying on floats I usually call on 122.75 letting people know i'll be bombing through shortly. and on 123.20. Also, whats with the postion reports saying you are somewhere ..when in acutal fact you are nowhere near the position you described.
I have no particular objection to the use of "Glen Valley Int'l" since it is the big field in the middle that most people use for forced landing practice.
One of the most important things we can have in this business is a sense of humour... "If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined".
We can either take serious offence or just laugh it off.
If it is not a safety issue, why get worked up about it?
There are many problems in using 122.75. I don't think it's use was very well thought out.
A local training frequency should be decided upon for each training area and this then printed on the VTA.
122.75 is used in the Pitt Lake area, but the float planes on their joy ride excursions fly through the area using 123.20!
If you fly over Widgeon Lake, use 123.20.
A helicopter was operating at the top end of Pitt Lake on 123.20 the other day.
The Stave Lake and upper Alouette Lake traffic use 123.20.
Mission is 123.20, but I hear traffic on 122.75 there too.
There's a lot of confusion, if you have two radios perhaps you can monitor both frequencies.
One of the most important things we can have in this business is a sense of humour... "If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined".
We can either take serious offence or just laugh it off.
If it is not a safety issue, why get worked up about it?
There are many problems in using 122.75. I don't think it's use was very well thought out.
A local training frequency should be decided upon for each training area and this then printed on the VTA.
122.75 is used in the Pitt Lake area, but the float planes on their joy ride excursions fly through the area using 123.20!
If you fly over Widgeon Lake, use 123.20.
A helicopter was operating at the top end of Pitt Lake on 123.20 the other day.
The Stave Lake and upper Alouette Lake traffic use 123.20.
Mission is 123.20, but I hear traffic on 122.75 there too.
There's a lot of confusion, if you have two radios perhaps you can monitor both frequencies.
I guess we all have to just realize that every flying business in our crowded Fraser Valley has a different attitude towards this. Some use 122.75 (flight schools), some use 123.2 (float/fling wing pilots), some use 123.5 (ultralights)...
I don't think that we're going to change anything by complaining, so lets just all keep our eyes open and maybe, from the flight training perspective, do airwork in places other than over cresent island. I shutter when i hear an airplane at 2000, one at 2500, one at 3000 all doing stalls and spins over cresent island (are they really over cresent island?) at the same time. Or maybe we need to teach our students to be more precise, and spend more time teaching them how to report their real position. At the end of the day, remember, we're flight instructors, and students are going to imitate us, and if we don't correct their bad habits when they form, then they're going to assume that they're not doing anything wrong. So everyone do your part. Think outside the box. There is more areas to practice other than cresent island... (stave lake, alouette lake, hatzic, nicolmen island.)
I don't think that we're going to change anything by complaining, so lets just all keep our eyes open and maybe, from the flight training perspective, do airwork in places other than over cresent island. I shutter when i hear an airplane at 2000, one at 2500, one at 3000 all doing stalls and spins over cresent island (are they really over cresent island?) at the same time. Or maybe we need to teach our students to be more precise, and spend more time teaching them how to report their real position. At the end of the day, remember, we're flight instructors, and students are going to imitate us, and if we don't correct their bad habits when they form, then they're going to assume that they're not doing anything wrong. So everyone do your part. Think outside the box. There is more areas to practice other than cresent island... (stave lake, alouette lake, hatzic, nicolmen island.)
GF.
