Jazz to Hire Pilots From Schools.

TheEvilTwin · Post by **TheEvilTwin** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:59 pm

small penguin wrote:
Now let me ask you all how many of you encountered failures in flight away from home when you had less than 200TT. How did you react?

Been there, done that.. NEXT

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:06 pm

small penguin wrote:
I am going to venture a guess and say this, uhh, so called emergency was over somewhere in southern ontario where there are millions of lights and roads that are easy to follow.
Does location matter? Not really. It was on a cross country on the leg between Fredericton and Cape Breton.

As for the fact that it is a minor failure, I dont give a hoot, since Im not an airline pilot flying every day. Nor do I ever want to be one of those. Now let me ask you all how many of you encountered failures in flight away from home when you had less than 200TT. How did you react?

., how would the right seat feel after telling the captain that? If it was me, I'd feel proud. If the captain cant take it, thats his fault. We both would be working for Jazz and if the good 'ol pessimistic captain dont like it, he can quit.

Gosh you know, you remind me of someone. Just can't figure it out right now. Something to do with a saw.......Oh yes it is you

Good one. you had us all fooled there for a moment.

Cheers

heavymetal · Post by **heavymetal** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:11 pm

I'm sorry to say there bud, but location does matter. If you've ever seen dark surrounding Big Trout or Stony Rapids at night you will see the difference.

Now I'm not here to get out the ruler and see who's bigger or belittle your experience to date, but I would like to give you a couple of hints from someone who has spent some time in the industry so take them how you will.

First and formost, just stop posting. You may feel like you're changing the aviation community and enlightning everyone on how awesome Sault/Seneca/Mount Royal pilots are compared to normies but its just not working. For those that are happy for your oppurtunity, they have shown their support and those that are negative and bitter they won't change. I hate to say it, but spending a few years even just surfing this website or working in the industry would have made that obvious.

If you go into Jazz thinking that everyone who doesn't like you can quit, you are sadly mistaken. I would be the quietest most attentive person in that cockpit trying to soak up every bit of knowledge you can from your Captains. Don't worry about having to tell them who you are because the will know all ready before you set foot onboard. Be proud but don't be over-confident because they will have no trouble taking you down a peg or two.

Now why bother calling anyone out to see how they reacted if they had a failure in flight less than 200hrs? Obviously if they are here to tell you about it, they reacted properly. The fact is everyone at some point is going to have some sort of an emergency from pumping the gear down to complete control failures. Its part of the job and its really the only reason these things aren't pilotless yet. Yes, you had an alternator failure and dealt with it. I'm glad you were trained properly and made the right decision to protect your life. The only point anyone is trying to make when you boast about this is in pure layman's terms--shit happens, deal with it. I know guys that have had double fanners or shot single engine NDBs to minimums. Its an unspoken respect that everyone has for them especially as they never ever brag or boast on what they did. They may have saved 9 lives that weren't their own but you'll never hear them say that. They just did their job and flew the plane.

It's obvious you are not an airline pilot, but why would you be going to Jazz if you never want to be one of those? What do you think you are going to be doing everyday you go to work?

I can speak for a lot of us here when I tell you if you keep your head downm that whole brain-mouth filter operational and take advantage of everyone else's experience, there is no reason why you will not succeed.

YYC the place to be · Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:03 pm

Thank god we live in a democratic society where we have choices, and now it's time for people to make the right choice when flying.

I, for one, will not be supporting (flying with) Jazz and their decision to hire F/Os direct out of flight school, nor will my friends and family.

It's been said over and over again...if Jazz set a standard to pay pilots what they're worth they wouldn't be creating THEIR OWN pilot shortage

Maybe the cost of the tickets is going to decrease now too...being that they're saving so much money

Pilot salary is a cost of doing business.

The media is going to have a hay day with Jazz...

Dr. Peelot · Post by **Dr. Peelot** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:28 pm

YYC- good point. It's almost like you read my mind.

The Dr. approves.

KISS_MY_TCAS · Post by **KISS_MY_TCAS** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:29 pm

Face it, this is the new face of aviation in Canada. 20 year old 200hr wonders riding the pine in the right seat, on a plane being fixed by immigrants without Canadian licences, all done because of the supposed "shortage" in all facets of aviation in Canada. Meanwhile higher time pilots and Canadian AMEs are collecting food stamps because they demand a fair wage in their chosen profession and cannot find employment because the operators have gone to the government crying about a shortage, opening the floodgates to the type of hiring practices we are now seeing. Cheap labour wins every time, and thank God TC wiped their hands of it all. The SMS system works, you are all seeing it in action. Unfortunately TC never realized that the self regulating and policing system really stands for "Severe Money Savings". Should be an interesting future in this industry

.

THEICEMAN · Post by **THEICEMAN** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:52 pm

Before I go on...just want to tell you all that I am 21 & have 125TT (& Building fast)...doin my Commercial, IFR & still in University. I fly almost every day tryin to get closer & closer to my dream.

I can admit that sometimes, I can be a bit cocky....but by no means do I believe I am ready to fly for an airline anytime soon..
Fancy College or not!

This guy "Daugherty" apparently flew gliders?? Does this count towards his total time?? If so, that would be a real joke!
I'm sure he is a nice guy, but who the heck is he to say. "But we kind of make up for lack of experience with personal skills, management skills, and we're pretty adaptable"
???????

Why, because you went to some flight academy where you have probably done only 100TT a Year??
I don't blame him for taking the job. But he talks as if he is the Sydney Crosby for pilots....ya right!

I have done 100TT in the past 6 months & plan to do more 200TT+ in the next six months...how is this guy more well-rounded that I am....
or
as a matter of fact, better then the instructors @ my school! Some of which are extremely talented & would make 30X better pilots then he would!
Guys that I trust my life with, but are having a hard time getting on a King Air!

I would like to fly with this guy! No, actually...I wouldn't would not trust him @ the controls of even a 172! Not happenin...just would not let him!

Don't think I want to stay in Canada in the future. Plan to get some multi turbine with some Charter then off to Asia or something.....
THIS IS THE TRUE VOICE & OPINION OF MANY YOUNG PILOTS MY AGE & YOUNGER....THE FUTURE CANADIAN PILOTS

small penguin · Post by **small penguin** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:06 am

heavymetal, I dont know if you're ignorant or you just cant read. I've already stated that a) Im not a Sue (or any other college) graduate. Nor do I want to be, and b) I have no intention whatsoever on applying to Jazz or any other airlines or commercial air service.

I fly for myself, not for others.

I would be the quietest most attentive person in that cockpit trying to soak up every bit of knowledge you can from your Captains.

I agree with this and I can bet you most of the new Jazz hires will be as such (exceptions aside), but there will still be the older Jazz employees pissed about it, as has been made evident in almost every second post here. Just because a new guy is eager to learn, doesnt mean the old guy is pleased to teach.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:40 am

Good for those who have the chance to get into a program like this. If I would have had the opportunity back in 1996, graduating out of a 4-year degree from a major aeronautical university, so would I. So would you.

It can work in the end. The airline employer obviously has to guide these new pilots, but it will work out long term. An employer like Jazz benefits by keeping these new guys long term and molds them into a guy who has fewer legacy habits from previous companies. The experience will come with time.

I think there will be more of this in the future, as dictated by the supply and demand of the worldwide aviation situation.

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:57 am

Panama Jack wrote:Good for those who have the chance to get into a program like this. If I would have had the opportunity back in 1996, graduating out of a 4-year degree from a major aeronautical university, so would I. So would you.

I as a person who looked into the 4 year aeronautical degree program, can honestly say i wouldn't graduate out of that rip off. I could get my own degree in engineering and my own flight training separate for less, have a back up plan, and not have the attitude i have seen from the students in these programs.

squawk 7600 · Post by **squawk 7600** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:12 am

So you're telling me that a fresh 250 hour pilot out of a flight college with a couple of hours of CRM ground school is a better candidate than, say, a King Air or 1900 pilot with 2300 hours of "actual" CRM and IFR experience? So how much icing have any of these 8 students seen? I would rather work with a co-pilot with 250 hrs on a Navajo than some 20 year old kid fresh out of aviation kindergarten who has demonstrated they can fly a computer and pass written tests. Atleast the navajo guy has actually flown an airplane in cloud to 200' above the ground in real icing!

What ever happened to experience here people!!! There is absolutely no need for this hiring strategy in this country!!! There are far too many experienced pilots for this to happen. It is a real slap in the face to those people that have put in their time.

But the fact of the matter is, WestJet is offering much, much more in terms of money and lifestyle than what Jazz can offer. This is Jazz's way of competing...and to prevent them from being a training ground for westjet, atleast in the interm. Maybe Air Canada should smarten up and quit POFing so many Jazz guys. Both companies are a mess in my opinion.

WestJet has it's shit together, both AC and Jazz continue to demonstrate their ability to eat WestJet's dust!

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:27 am

4 year aeronautical degree program

You don't need a degree to program an FMS. A degree is a waste of time if all you want to be is a pilot.

Captain S itmagnet · Post by **Captain S itmagnet** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:45 am

Master Daugherty has clearly demonstrated one of the "life skills" lacking in his resume. Namely, DO NOT TALK TO THE MEDIA!

[/u]

Liger · Post by **Liger** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:05 pm

All I can say is that I would hate to be Mr. Daugherty, I mean Maverick!

All the crews will recognize him and remeber his face because of that amazing photograph in which he was wearing his cool rayban glasses, posing in a C172!

With his cocky attitude and all his experience: "this one time in band camp...in the circuit..." he's already a popular fellow at Jazz!

It's a good thing that he's adaptable. After all, he has personal skills and management skills! With all these qualities I think he should be Chief Pilot for Jazz, but on a D-scale pay of 1% of a Chief Pilot's salary!

When I saw his face on that photograph the only thing I could think of was "WELCOME TO THE DANGER ZONE..."

Good Luck Maverick!!! You're already a legend at Jazz!

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:08 pm

What I don't get is if they want to start hiring low time pilots why not start with current F/Os ? Take a 1000 hour King Air F/O, who at least has some CRM/SOP experiance as well they probably seen some "real" conditions. This way they would open up spots for other 200 hour wonders and then hire them after two years and have a steady stream of low time pilots with "some" real world experiance.

This should accomplish the same outcome without p***ing off their fellow aviators that will be sitting to their left for the rest of their career.

Lurch

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:10 pm

Liger wrote:All I can say is that I would hate to be Mr. Daugherty, I mean Maverick!

All the crews will recognize him and remeber his face because of that amazing photograph in which he was wearing his cool rayban glasses, posing in a C172!

With his cocky attitude and all his experience: "this one time in band camp...in the circuit..." he's already a popular fellow at Jazz!

It's a good thing that he's adaptable. After all, he has personal skills and management skills! With all these qualities I think he should be Chief Pilot for Jazz, but on a D-scale pay of 1% of a Chief Pilot's salary!

When I saw his face on that photograph the only thing I could think of was "WELCOME TO THE DANGER ZONE..."

Good Luck Maverick!!! You're already a legend at Jazz!

Photo, what Photo?

Oh man I have got to see this.

Liger · Post by **Liger** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:35 pm

BIG photo on actual paper copy of the article - on the National Post!

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:13 pm

Shall I post??

Also, whats wrong with Med evac? Or bush flying ? The article makes it sound (from my point of view ) that this type of flying is " above" college grads.

Personally, I don't give as shit what I fly and where..as long as conditions are safe and i'm paid fairly its all good.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:31 pm

I say post, how could the mods have a problem if it is already plastered on a national news paper.

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:48 pm

hmm...lets see how this works..

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:59 pm

..i dunno how to work this thing..shit son

If people are desperate enough, I can send via e-mail..God, I hate computers..I need one of those courses at Sault. to fix my inability to post pics on avcan...

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:02 pm

You guys never said anything that you wish you hadn't afterward when you were young?

You guys were as smart when you were young as you are today?

You guys weren't just a little proud when you passed your commercial / IFR?

You guys would have turned down a job offer with Jazz at 300 hours because of your high morals and ethics?

You guys knew everything there was to know about this industry when you were twenty-one?

Your total knowledge of this kid comes from a newspaper article, so why don't you aviation gods leave him alone and focus your rapier wit and outrage at the people who made this happen in the first place.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:09 pm

Rockie wrote:You guys never said anything that you wish you hadn't afterward when you were young?

You guys were as smart when you were young as you are today?

You guys weren't just a little proud when you passed your commercial / IFR?

You guys would have turned down a job offer with Jazz at 300 hours because of your high morals and ethics?

You guys knew everything there was to know about this industry when you were twenty-one?

Your total knowledge of this kid comes from a newspaper article, so why don't you aviation gods leave him alone and focus your rapier wit and outrage at the people who made this happen in the first place.

No/Yes Your double negative makes it like a TC Exam

No

Yes

Yes

Thought So

I'm not mad at Mike, But Small Penguin isn't helping his case.

Lurch

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:19 pm

If I am included in the " you guys" group. I have 440TT and yes, I would.

Buschpielot · Post by **Buschpielot** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:03 pm

Some of the old timers will have to help me out with this one. Wasn't there a brief blip in the 70's or 80's when this sort of thing happened? A neighbor's brother was plucked out of Selkirk College by Canadian Pacific and put right seat on the 737. Took 17 years to go Captain if I recall the story correctly - of course memory can be a wonderfully inaccurate thing!

Jazz to Hire Pilots From Schools.

What goin on????