Jazz Sept. GS

squawk 7600 · Post by **squawk 7600** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:22 am

The mass exodus to WestJet probably just increased 10 fold. It really doesn't make any sense to me...amazing how things change. You need 2000 hours to be a FO on a 1900, but 250 to be a FO on a RJ? So I guess the RJ is much easier to fly than the 1900? A very, very screwed up industry in this country indeed. Clunkdriver said it best about Cathay having a structured program for these cadets, but to just pluck them from a college that is not run by the airline? I thought insurance companies and lawyers were here to prevent this sort of thing from happening.

Dave T · Post by **Dave T** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:50 am

ROTFLMAO, WOW thats pretty bad that your going to RENT an aircraft so that you can get the night PIC time required to get a higher licence so you can be a captain on an airliner. WOW

Not saying that I agree with the hiring practice but I know many people that have had to do this. They are flying a 704 airplane and when it comes time to upgrade you can only count 100 hours of supervised PIC if your company has the program. This can lead to a few people having to rent an airplane to do a couple hours of PIC or even night PIC to get there ATPL.

You're at your upgrade what would you do? Quit and go to another job just to get a couple hours of PIC or suck it up and stay at the job you are enjoying and about to get captain at?

Happens quite often.

CaptainHaddock · Post by **CaptainHaddock** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:43 am

Congratulations Luis on getting the gig,I'll only repeat what the rest have said.It's a little demeaning to the higher time guys trying to get on that they would hire direct entry students-but I would have jumped at the opportunity if it had been offered to me when I graduated. In reference to your quote

"I already have all my PIC time required for the ATPL except for night PIC hours. I'll just rent an airplane to do it."

Jazz may (as many companies do) have a TC approved supervised PIC program which you can meet you night PIC requiements with.

Cheers Captain Haddock

'

Luis · Post by **Luis** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:29 pm

Thanks for the info Haddock, but anyways this won't be until a couple of years so I'll have time to work this problem.

Never thought I would be this unpopular once in my life

.

TAWS · Post by **TAWS** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:01 pm

If you pass the training.....management and the union will be watching this program with great interest.

Good Luck

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:26 pm

I found the CRJ initial course pretty challenging and I had 5000 hrs when I started but no FMS or Jet time.

A lot of stuff to cram into your head in a few weeks time!!!

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:46 pm

Dave T wrote:
ROTFLMAO, WOW thats pretty bad that your going to RENT an aircraft so that you can get the night PIC time required to get a higher licence so you can be a captain on an airliner. WOW
Not saying that I agree with the hiring practice but I know many people that have had to do this. They are flying a 704 airplane and when it comes time to upgrade you can only count 100 hours of supervised PIC if your company has the program. This can lead to a few people having to rent an airplane to do a couple hours of PIC or even night PIC to get there ATPL.

You're at your upgrade what would you do? Quit and go to another job just to get a couple hours of PIC or suck it up and stay at the job you are enjoying and about to get captain at?

Happens quite often.

Dave T

It happens because the company(s) do not thave the best interests of the individual in mind. Unfortunetly he or she is there to "fill a seat" the are hired as career FO's. I have not paid a cent on flight training since I got my first flying job. The next time I do, It will be for pleasure only.

Jazz may (as many companies do) have a TC approved supervised PIC program which you can meet you night PIC requiements with.

Not sure on that one Haddock. As up until now. Jazz has not hired anyone (not that I am aware of anyways) that would not be qualified to be a Captain, so there is no need for it. That is not to say that they will not implement one in the future.

Luis

Instead of criticizing you. I will give you some advice. Not a guarantee that this will work. First of all, don't rent an airplane to build hours. When the time comes. When there is a down turn and the company offers LOAs, take one. Then if you can, get yourself a job where you can build some PIC time (may be difficult because fo your lack of PIC time, not many companies search for DEC in a downturn.)

Good luck

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:04 pm

They will have to put out a NOTAM every time these clowns take to the air because it will not be pretty.

200 hour pilots fly like 200 hour pilots!

Wingman · Post by **Wingman** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:56 pm

WOW!!!!

Jer · Post by **Jer** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:24 pm

Well, it surely sounds scary this whole thing, but I think if they spend extra time in the simulator (like i mean fly at least 100 hours) and they put them all on Dash-8s, it will be a little bit of work for the first 4-5 flights, but then, they'll get use to it especially if they would do the same route over and over.

Dash-8 -100 are slower than PC-12s, BE20s ... I have a bunch of new F/O flying the BE20 and they are not that bad. I don't feel like I am babysitting. It is all about having the right attitude and be willing to help the new ones that wants to make their way through.

It will be easy work for them too since at Jazz, you can concentrate on your flight in the cockpit until everyone around has done their job...

If captains are worried about flying with a new F/O in bad weather, they just have to cancel the flight as they usually does...

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:19 pm

Jer wrote:Well, it surely sounds scary this whole thing, but I think if they spend extra time in the simulator (like i mean fly at least 100 hours) and they put them all on Dash-8s, it will be a little bit of work for the first 4-5 flights, but then, they'll get use to it especially if they would do the same route over and over.

The only problem with that is that it is going to cost them more money and time. why would they go through the trouble of hiring low time guys if it is going to cost them more, sorry I don't buy the shortage crap, in the States maybe but not in Canada.

True, speed wise the dash 8 is comparable with a King Air and Pilatus. But the PC12 and BE20 to be a bit more forgiving than a Dash, specially on landings. The Dash is a 2 crew aircraft where the King Air and Pilatus are certified for Single pilot ops. Besides they may not be on the Dash. they could be on the RJ and that airplane from what I am told is not the most forgiving one out there.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:48 pm

they could be on the RJ and that airplane from what I am told is not the most forgiving one out there.

Yeh, and having learned to fly where there was a 5 knot X/Wind restriction an RJ would be a real challenge for them when they have to land with a real bad X/Wind.

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:43 am

Jer wrote: If captains are worried about flying with a new F/O in bad weather, they just have to cancel the flight as they usually does...

Not that easy man, To cancel a flight at this stage is nothing like before where you say I'm not going end of story.

Here you have to go through the stages of every aspect of ops, yes it is ultimately up to the pilots. However its not so cut and dry anymore

Jer · Post by **Jer** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:10 pm

Well, I guess I was exagerating when I said "as they usually does"...

Well I hope they put the grads on Dash-8s and not RJ, that would solve a part of the problem. And I hope the captains will be cooperative with them.

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:59 am

Didn't these college guys spend the last three years learning all about the RJ. Theyr'e too advanced at this point for the Dash. Theyr'e much better qualified to crash an RJ.

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:10 pm

heyr'e too advanced at this point for the Dash.

ROTFLMAO, that is the best line in this thread by far. It even sounded as if you were serious

tundratire · Post by **tundratire** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:01 pm

Kind of sounding like a broken record here but I hope the public is aware of this example:
Jazz claims that there is a pilot shortage.....a friend of mine has just under 3000 hours/1500 PIC/1000Multi PIC ATPL and he told me that he won't be applying to Jazz. Not enough pay and to work for a company that claims there is a pilot shortage....more like a shortage of people willing to work for that wage and for a company that would rather hire 250 hour pilots than experienced ones so they can save money...JUST STUNNING.