No it justs means that while at cornwall you didn't wake up on saturday and sunday mornings with a hangover like the rest of us.cpl_atc wrote: PS: Should I seek counselling since I was able to cite the Manop reference without the book in front of me? Somehow I think so.
Transponder in uncontrolled airspace
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
Yeah I an referring to MANOPS, we are about 1/4 done. But we are IFR so I don't know the difference in the training from VFR.cpl_atc wrote:I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to? Do you mean 80 threads on this board?Braun wrote:Haha, or you are like me and memeorized about 80+ articles so far word for word.
The amount of memorization both during and after Cornwall certainly was staggering. Lots and lots of work. But not unnecessary -- to be competent you need to have a huge amount of information instantly available at your fingertips. Not necessarily unlike the information a pilot must have available to them. The compressed nature of the ATC training sure made it seem like more. Whether or not that is the reality is hard to judge.
Braun: If you know The Rooster, PM me.
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takeachance
- Rank 0
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:27 am
- Location: FSS, AB
We always use "squawk ident and say your altitude"...and no one is ever "radar identified", we just say "roger ident" . The airspace here is pretty busy and we've been told to do this to confirm that the altitude is correct so that we can use it for passing traffic using the radar. If we didn't get them to squawk ident we're not able to use that altitude in passing traffic. Though this should be valid regardless of whether it is a busy site or not.
We also assign a code before you enter or leave the zone, and no one has made any specific mention of whether to say "squawk 1200" or to just let them go along with their assigned code. That being said, since there is no clear cut rule that I am aware of, some people tell vfr guys to "squawk 1200" if they report clear about 15 miles out. I would say that 90 percent of the vfr guys automatically squawk 1200 by 15 or 20 miles out from the airport.
Center will all us and ask us if a vfr target has been verified, so thats another reason for identifying the targets.
Just my 2cents from this part of the country. I know it seems to be different everywhere you travel.
We also assign a code before you enter or leave the zone, and no one has made any specific mention of whether to say "squawk 1200" or to just let them go along with their assigned code. That being said, since there is no clear cut rule that I am aware of, some people tell vfr guys to "squawk 1200" if they report clear about 15 miles out. I would say that 90 percent of the vfr guys automatically squawk 1200 by 15 or 20 miles out from the airport.
Center will all us and ask us if a vfr target has been verified, so thats another reason for identifying the targets.
Just my 2cents from this part of the country. I know it seems to be different everywhere you travel.
Sioux Lookout has been using this procedure, from what I have noticed thus far:
- If I have not been assigned a code -or- asked to confirm altitude and squawk ident, the procedure FSS uses is the same as it always has. Ask both pilots for their position and altitude and try to either get one of us to see the other or make some sort of plan to avoid a conflict.
- If I have been "identified" using the above methods, FSS will still use the same procedures but sometimes include something like "King Air is at your 10 oclock for three miles through three tousand" or something to that effect. I'll sometimes hear FSS call that no conflict exists because of each aircraft's altitude.
They seem to be using it more to supplement their existing protocols, which is good and what I am assuming it is intended to do (rather than replace them).
As an aside my transponder was blinking away descending through 1,900 today right over the airport... don't know how long it kept being interrogated as I had a more pressing issue at hand.
- If I have not been assigned a code -or- asked to confirm altitude and squawk ident, the procedure FSS uses is the same as it always has. Ask both pilots for their position and altitude and try to either get one of us to see the other or make some sort of plan to avoid a conflict.
- If I have been "identified" using the above methods, FSS will still use the same procedures but sometimes include something like "King Air is at your 10 oclock for three miles through three tousand" or something to that effect. I'll sometimes hear FSS call that no conflict exists because of each aircraft's altitude.
They seem to be using it more to supplement their existing protocols, which is good and what I am assuming it is intended to do (rather than replace them).
As an aside my transponder was blinking away descending through 1,900 today right over the airport... don't know how long it kept being interrogated as I had a more pressing issue at hand.
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takeachance
- Rank 0
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- Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:27 am
- Location: FSS, AB
I guess it is exactly the same then... but we're told not to say radar identified... just roger ident. We've just been told don't say "radar identified"... like you said.. just semantics.
"RADAR IDENTIFICATION: The process of ascertaining that a particular target is the radar return from a specific aircraft."
We never have a problem here, but 90 percent of the people who fly in here are used to the way we run things, used to how busy it gets, and used to the tools we use to pass traffic. That said, I don't think it's ideal, since the whole NavCan idea is to have the same standards across the country... but in real life... we know if sometimes differs... each unit has some specific operational differences.This is playing with semantics I guess, but if you're squawking someone to confirm their target, then they are radar identified. Whether you actually say it on the frequency is the issue I suppose. Although as a pilot I would be confused as to why you're asking me to squawk ident but then never confirm that I'm identified.
Having the radar is a great tool for us, and I think, enables us to do a much better job, especially with the number of movements.
Our basic radar traffic advisory: "Traffic, Citation, your 3 o'clock, 3 miles, 3200 ft inbound at 240 kts"
Sometimes speed isn't ness., or inbound/outbound/direction etc.. but that would be an example of a radar traffic advis... You give the traffic relative to each other, not to the airport. The other way would more like the traffic at a non radar FSS site where we would just have the info the pilots gave us for traffic... reported 12 to the north 1 min ago inbound at 3200 ft.
Ah, never thought of thatcpl_atc wrote:If you saw an interrogation at 1900', it was almost definitely an interrogation originating from another aircraft's TCAS, and not the Dryden radar site.Still-in-YXL wrote:As an aside my transponder was blinking away descending through 1,900 today right over the airport... don't know how long it kept being interrogated as I had a more pressing issue at hand.
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GilletteNorth
- Rank 7
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:09 pm
- Location: throw a dart dead center of Saskatchewan
The squawk codes I assign in La Ronge are only for aircraft I know are going on local training flights and returning. I load them with information (A/C ident, type, destination YVC and special tag TRAINER). YVC has a forestry base for CL215 and Convair water bombers, as well as AC95 and BE55 spotter planes. It gets very busy at the beginning of the season with all the training flights. Knowing who and where the 'big tin' is helps alot. I regularly tag local company training flights as well. Coming from a site that didn't have NARDS to one that does, is like moving up from an old 386 computer to a Pentium 3.
Having a standard that pilots lose their licence after making a mistake despite doing no harm to aircraft or passengers means soon you needn't worry about a pilot surplus or pilots offering to fly for free. Where do you get your experience from?
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NewtonCentre
- Rank 1
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:23 am
- Location: Vancouver ACC
If you are given a discreet code by an FSS, then we don't see your data tag on our radar screens, so I don't really care if you keep your code or not. There have been times where I'm passing traffic and I notice that the aircraft involved (who I'm not talking to) has a discreet code. In this case, I turn on my NARDS (the auxilary radar that the FSS use, we have available as backup) and often I'll see the data tag on the NARDS. Though I don't know for sure, I might add the information in my traffic passing "possibly a beech baron". So by keeping it, it might give another pilot a bit more info. Also, the datetag often has the point of departure and destination (depending if the flight plan was completely filled out by the FSS who inputed it). So it gives me a bit more information as to where you came from and where your going - not that it usually matters.
If you change to 1200 when you enter class G airspace, that's fine too. If you think that the centre might want to know about you, or if there is a lot of traffic around or destined for your destination - feel free to keep it.
If you change to 1200 when you enter class G airspace, that's fine too. If you think that the centre might want to know about you, or if there is a lot of traffic around or destined for your destination - feel free to keep it.
