Seneca requirements

FlyHigh13 · Post by **FlyHigh13** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:59 pm

Well I cannot comment on the circuits with the gear down, I can comment and say that the planes are NOT taxiid by the ailerons. People who are pushing by the ailerons are pushing above them, not on them.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:17 pm

Why are people "pushing" at all! How does one "push" above the ailerons? Sounds like your instructors could use some DUAL!!!
You don't "push" an aircraft in the same direction that the engines were designed to PULL it!! Who ARE the idiots???

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:17 am

Never thought of that before Doc.

So say you have 3 people that wanna move a Cessna 172 forward. One guy has a tow bar. Are you saying that only the guy with the tow bar should exert any force on the plane to move it?

-istp

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:17 am

The guy on the tow bar would be pulling. And the 172 has struts. But, where do you push a Baron? No struts. You don't. You pull them. Why are we even having this conversation? These guys are morons.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:42 am

I dunno, Doc. I would think the forces exerted on a wing by giving it a nudge would be less than if it were undergoing heavy braking.

Yeah, if someone were pushing on a control surface they deserve to be slapped.

Not trying to be confrontational here, Doc, but Im a relative newbie in the flight biz, so Ive never heard of it being bad to push on a wing.

And I have no idea how to make an apostrophe on this weird french keyboard at school.

-istp

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:12 am

Okay, the issue, to me at least, is where would you "push" on the trailing edge of a wing? You have flaps, or control surfaces, pretty much the entire length? I've just never seen anyone do it....and I'm not new to this. I think you're being "set up" here with bad habits.

Hotel Tango · Post by **Hotel Tango** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:00 pm

Not outboard of the ailerons where the other tanks are.

FlyHigh13 · Post by **FlyHigh13** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:23 pm

the barons are always backed in. That means pushing on the leading edge of the wing. When it is being pushed from the back, barely and force is being exerted because it is pretty much rolling down the hill. Also, over top of the ailerons where the wing is, you can push with a flat hand. There is also spots further out from the ailerons where you can push.

saucer_driver · Post by **saucer_driver** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:12 pm

Must say I have run into alot of seneca grads over the last few years and none have impressed me with any super better then anyone else skills....In fact despite the "extensive" crm training they apparently obtain, they have turned out to be the most useless of passangers and "co-pilots" ........My experience in dealing with graduates of this college combined with witnessing a seneca aircraft land with brakes on, followed by lots of smoke and screeching is enough to make me thankful i didnt go there.....

But if you wish to get in you might want to bone up on Acronyms and neumonics because that is what the grads seem to know best.

Dominic220 · Post by **Dominic220** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:31 pm

Wait... you mean you're not suppose to land with brakes on? maan, I've been flying the wrong way all my flying career... next thing you're going to tell me, is I don't need an airspeed indicator to fly a plane! </sarcasm>

HavaJava · Post by **HavaJava** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:58 am

8 of the last 10 Captain upgrades at my company have been Seneca grads.

Go figure! Guess we better order a new shipment of tires

HavaJava · Post by **HavaJava** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:04 am

Also, I cant' remember any Seneca grad that has ever failed a checkride or upgrade at my company...there have been many people from other backgrounds that have failed though.

Go figure! I guess we better sign those Seneca grads up for an extra CRM course

saucer_driver · Post by **saucer_driver** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:45 am

simply an observation hava......so dont havacow

F/O Crunch · Post by **F/O Crunch** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:07 pm

hahahahah!

Boing!

Jeppesen · Post by **Jeppesen** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:21 am

Dujan wrote:when are the entrance exams and what all do they involve? (what kind of math and english i mean)

The math exam deals with a lot of geometry and vectors. A bit of probability, and the rest is all equations and random stuff.

For English we had a section in vocabulary and comprehension. Same thing you do in high school, essays, comparisons, etc,etc

if you want to know how is like at Seneca everyday? take some time to read the book The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe. Although it deals with the army, many things in the book are like the program at Seneca. Lots of ego, and we are all believers of "the right stuff". if you don't have it, then I guess you're part of the unttouchables.

sigmet77 · Post by **sigmet77** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:24 am

I hope you are joking. Comparing yourself to some of the most famous and recognizable men in aviation history? Please tell me that was sarcasm.

Jeppesen · Post by **Jeppesen** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:37 am

sigmet77 wrote:I hope you are joking. Comparing yourself to some of the most famous and recognizable men in aviation history? Please tell me that was sarcasm.

I never said we were Pete Conrad,Ted Whelan, . Yeager, or anybody else that appears on the book. I meant that the program at Seneca runs in a way that those who do not have "the right stuff" are kicked out. That happens very often in the book, either by death or because they simply didn't have the right stuff. Those who where kicked out were then called the unttouchables. There's more meaning and symbolism in this book than personalities.

The fraternity that was formed in the book can also be seen at Seneca. All aviation students get together and are friends. people in the book used to hang out every friday. Remember "beer time on Friday at 2:Am" when they used to get drunk and stuff on chapter 2? We too hang out very often and even our families know each other.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:13 pm

I never said we were Pete Conrad,Ted Whelan, . Yeager, or anybody else that appears on the book. I meant that the program at Seneca runs in a way that those who do not have "the right stuff" are kicked out.

Does having the right stuff mean the top guns at Seneca can handle a X/Wind over 5 knots?

Jeppesen · Post by **Jeppesen** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
I never said we were Pete Conrad,Ted Whelan, . Yeager, or anybody else that appears on the book. I meant that the program at Seneca runs in a way that those who do not have "the right stuff" are kicked out.
Does having the right stuff mean the top guns at Seneca can handle a X/Wind over 5 knots?

Seneca is like any other school, that is just their rule.

We are not top guns, we are 18s year old wannabe pilots just like you were. I'm not allowed to handle X/wind over 5 knots, but that doesn't mean I don't have the skills to handle them.

I don't see how not being allowed to handle x/wind over 5 Knots be a problem. Jazz doesn't seem to care, PIA doesn't care either, nor does CargoJet , Air Canada , or any other airline that hires our students.

The thing is cat, anybody, can fly a plane. believe me, anybody. Now, to do it professionally, that's the difference. Any rich kid, can go to Brampton flying club and get all the licenses, the question is.....will he be able to fly professionally? Is he able to go through a very selective program, or a process for that matter, and make it all the way through?

Will this rich kid be able to get above 80's on mechanics, physics, communication, aeronautics, statics, fluids, etc etc, while at the same time pass all of his flying tests?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:52 pm

Will this rich kid be able to get above 80's on mechanics, physics, communication, aeronautics, statics, fluids, etc etc, while at the same time pass all of his flying tests?

Any pilot who is not taught to fly in X/Winds over 5 knots can not qualify to fly commercially in any airplane.

We are not top guns, we are 18s year old wannabe pilots just like you were. I'm not allowed to handle X/wind over 5 knots, but that doesn't mean I don't have the skills to handle them

Jeppesen:

I am not knocking your being 18 years old, I can clearly remember being 18 myself.

What burns me is your college screwing you around with the B.S. flight training program that I am reading about here.

Any flight instructor who will not or can not teach their students to fly in X/Winds over 5 knots is not competent enough to be a teacher.

If the rumor of your instructors teaching students to leave the gear down in retractible gear airplanes is true the person responsible for such an unorthodox method of teaching should have their instructors certificate revolked.

Maybe you could have that person post here on Avcanada to explain why he or she has such a moronic rule in place?

Also you can tell the instructor responsible for the training program at Seneca that if I were to get a resume from a Seneca student applying for work at the airline I work for I would throw it in the garbage.

Jeppesen · Post by **Jeppesen** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:10 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Will this rich kid be able to get above 80's on mechanics, physics, communication, aeronautics, statics, fluids, etc etc, while at the same time pass all of his flying tests?
Any pilot who is not taught to fly in X/Winds over 5 knots can not qualify to fly commercially in any airplane.

Well, I actually know a few of us who are flying for jazz,PIA, and another who I don't personally know, but is flying a b737 in China, once again right out of our program. There is also a girl who teaches in Florida. She finished the 4th year and got hired as an instructor down in Florida.

on another note if your knowledge of the program at Seneca is based on things you read here in avcanada, then you clearly don't know anything about Seneca. Many if not all of the things that I've read in here about Seneca are wrong and biased. Hell, we are even arguing about an X/wind restriction over 5 knots that I don't even know if it's real or just another rumour.

Same with the gear down restriction when doing circuits....I doubt that is true. Some people here just like to make stuff up, to have a good laugh afterwards.

give me one day and I'll get you the real answers. I'll ask my professors.

I can clearly say that we are the most hated aviation students across Canada.....the reason?? god knows why? Maybe a bunch of grads had horrible attitude, maybe some people that got in the 1st year where like that but then where kicked out. like I said I don't know

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:33 pm

Jeppesen:

My only motivation for discussing this with you is because I deplore people taking advantage of young people such as yourself.

If these rumors about 5 knot X/Wind limits and doing circuits with the gear down in retractable wheel airplanes are true you are being take advantage of by snake oil salesmen masquerading as a flight school.

Would it be possible for you to get the person responsible for these moronic rules to come here on Avcanada and try and convince me that he/ she is not taking advantage of the young and inexperienced who ar learning to fly at Seneca?

niwre · Post by **niwre** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:21 pm

Jeppesen wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:
The thing is cat, anybody, can fly a plane. believe me, anybody. Now, to do it professionally, that's the difference. Any rich kid, can go to Brampton flying club and get all the licenses, the question is.....will he be able to fly professionally? Is he able to go through a very selective program, or a process for that matter, and make it all the way through?

Will this rich kid be able to get above 80's on mechanics, physics, communication, aeronautics, statics, fluids, etc etc, while at the same time pass all of his flying tests?

I can see they are inflating your head already. Anyone can be taught be taught to be professional. Anyone can take a CRM course from their local Aviation Council by the same "Guest Speakers" you get to meet. Anyone can take any of those related communications, blah blah blah.... and still make it to the airlines if thats their goal.

I never was a "rich kid" and got my licences through the Flying Club system and would do it again if given the choice. Like many young students we take out loans or work our a** off to get to where we are. We don't need a student from Seneca coming here telling us they are taught to be professional suggesting (but not saying) we were/are not.

I wish you the best of luck in your program but careful of whos toes you might step on...

Jeppesen · Post by **Jeppesen** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:41 pm

niwre wrote:
Jeppesen wrote:
Cat Driver wrote: I can see they are inflating your head already. Anyone can be taught be taught to be professional. Anyone can take a CRM course from their local Aviation Council by the same "Guest Speakers" you get to meet. Anyone can take any of those related communications, blah blah blah.... and still make it to the airlines if thats their goal.

I never was a "rich kid" and got my licences through the Flying Club system and would do it again if given the choice. Like many young students we take out loans or work our a** off to get to where we are. We don't need a student from Seneca coming here telling us they are taught to be professional suggesting (but not saying) we were/are not.

I wish you the best of luck in your program but careful of whos toes you might step on...

here we go again!!

niwre, I never mentioned whether or not people that trained on private flying school are professionals. Read carefully, never!!

secondly, I did not say that everybody who decided to become a pilot, through a private flying school, was a rich kid.

I never suggested anything, don't call me a cynic. I suggested what i said. Nothing more and nothing less.

Guest speakers that I never met, once again you're ability to comprehend what I wrote is 0.

Anyone can't take: "those communications, blah, blah". If anyone could take them, then the world will be bunch of doctors and engineers.

I'm too working my ass off to pay for my school. Many of us are on the same boat, financially speaking. So don't expect more credit than anybody else, as we all work hard to pay off our career.

good luck to you too

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:06 pm

Cat Driver wrote: May God, Allah and all the other Gods known to mankind protect us as we fly with this new age breed.

Don't worry Cat, the computers won't let them actually "fly" the airplanes....

stl