I am just beginning my instructor training and find it a bit difficult to concentrate on alot of info that needs to be learned such as proper lingo in communication with the student, studying material, and just from reading other posts that for some it was the hardest licence to achieve.
I heard on your flight test guys were doing 6 hours of oral testing on the ground, wow.
Anybody that has done it recently and chose different ways in dealing with training for the instructor rating would be appreciated.
bluenote
Instructor training difficult?
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore
The instructor rating is a tonne of work but its all worth it once you;re done. I;ve just done mine in the spring, and I would recommmend it to anybody. You'll be extremely busy making up your own lesson plans, airnotes, learning new and proper terminology and ways to teach it.
Lots of things will make sense that didn;t make sense before when you sat in on a boring groundschool session for your commercial.
My advice is make sure you have a GOOD Class 1, get references about him, talk to him before you spend money.
The test down at TC is about 5hrs long, that includes the ground and air portion.
Anyway, just my $0.02
Lots of things will make sense that didn;t make sense before when you sat in on a boring groundschool session for your commercial.
My advice is make sure you have a GOOD Class 1, get references about him, talk to him before you spend money.
The test down at TC is about 5hrs long, that includes the ground and air portion.
Anyway, just my $0.02
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Cat Driver
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Guaranteed I'd fail it long before the five hours was up.The test down at TC is about 5hrs long, that includes the ground and air portion.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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just curious
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It's not dificult in practice once you understand the theory.
Take someone who doesn't speak English. Start teaching them English and throw in a few "Hey Man" s in the conversation. See how many decades it takes them to stop using Hey, man, in a sentence.
The basics of flying a cherokee in straight and level flight can be taught quickly by almost anybody. Teaching someone to fly so that they are alert and aware, and as, Cat is apt to say: "Knowing when not to fly" are entirely different matters.
There are terms that we use. and methods to our madness. There is a logical progression in learning and teaching. Get that, and the practice will fall into place for you.
On an initial ride, an inspector would look to see if your ground school stuff makes sense. and then your ground briefings for an exercise. It's gonna last for ever if you haven't got your head in the game.
If you do have the terms and approach down pat, then you'll start in the morning and be done for lunch.
Take someone who doesn't speak English. Start teaching them English and throw in a few "Hey Man" s in the conversation. See how many decades it takes them to stop using Hey, man, in a sentence.
The basics of flying a cherokee in straight and level flight can be taught quickly by almost anybody. Teaching someone to fly so that they are alert and aware, and as, Cat is apt to say: "Knowing when not to fly" are entirely different matters.
There are terms that we use. and methods to our madness. There is a logical progression in learning and teaching. Get that, and the practice will fall into place for you.
On an initial ride, an inspector would look to see if your ground school stuff makes sense. and then your ground briefings for an exercise. It's gonna last for ever if you haven't got your head in the game.
If you do have the terms and approach down pat, then you'll start in the morning and be done for lunch.
What office was that? Mine was no where near that long.airwalk00 wrote:
The test down at TC is about 5hrs long, that includes the ground and air portion.
What you need to know is, how to get what you need to know.
This is not a retreat. Its an advance to the rear.
There are only 10 people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
This is not a retreat. Its an advance to the rear.
There are only 10 people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
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200hr Wonder
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Mine was around the 2.5 to 3.0 mark. Gave a 20min PGI, gave a quick lesson plane of about 20min. Went up, flew the lesson plane. Did a few more exercises, came home got debriefed.
Now I will say I had an exceptional Class 1, and examiner. The flight test felt like just another lesson and I was told on my initial class 4 that my PGI was to a class 2 standard nearly had I used the POH.
The fact of the matter was that I was over prepared. My binder was in top notch shape, each lesson plan complete and come to test time, I got the ones I was going to PGI, was given 20min to prep, but did not need it just did a quick 10min review of what was in my binder and then followed along with my lesson plan.
Now I will say I had an exceptional Class 1, and examiner. The flight test felt like just another lesson and I was told on my initial class 4 that my PGI was to a class 2 standard nearly had I used the POH.
The fact of the matter was that I was over prepared. My binder was in top notch shape, each lesson plan complete and come to test time, I got the ones I was going to PGI, was given 20min to prep, but did not need it just did a quick 10min review of what was in my binder and then followed along with my lesson plan.
In years gone by, flight instructor tests (esp for upgrades to class 2 and 1) could be quite lengthy.
I remember more than one candidate that spent all day on the ground getting grilled, and at the end of the ground portion, there wasn't enough time in the day to go flying, so a second day had to be scheduled. Truly exhausting.
But those Inquisition Days are pretty well gone, AFAIK.
If you want to do well on your instructor flight test
1) BE PREPARED. Show up with a stack at least 3 feet of high of documents (seriously) - FIG, FTM, FTGU, POH, lesson plans, CARs, etc, etc. Know them all. Have them indexed and highlighted and be familiar with them, so you can answer any question that the Inspector will ask you. You are not expected to memorize everything.
2) don't just drone on endlessly. It is the mark of a good and experienced instructor that at appropriate times, you ask relevant questions to both keep him awake and involved, and to evaluate his understanding.
3) KNOW YOUR STUFF. Be very familiar with your airplane, it's limitations, and the POH. And it's probably just a pet peeve of mine, but for gosh sakes, have a clue about the lift equation and the Cl and Cd curves wrt AOA. Graphically derive the power curve at the blackboard. Be able to explain what kinetic energy is, and why it is important to maintain a precise airspeed on final. Some knowledge of aerodynamics and basic high school physics goes a long, long way in this business, because what we are doing is applied physics.
I remember more than one candidate that spent all day on the ground getting grilled, and at the end of the ground portion, there wasn't enough time in the day to go flying, so a second day had to be scheduled. Truly exhausting.
But those Inquisition Days are pretty well gone, AFAIK.
If you want to do well on your instructor flight test
1) BE PREPARED. Show up with a stack at least 3 feet of high of documents (seriously) - FIG, FTM, FTGU, POH, lesson plans, CARs, etc, etc. Know them all. Have them indexed and highlighted and be familiar with them, so you can answer any question that the Inspector will ask you. You are not expected to memorize everything.
2) don't just drone on endlessly. It is the mark of a good and experienced instructor that at appropriate times, you ask relevant questions to both keep him awake and involved, and to evaluate his understanding.
3) KNOW YOUR STUFF. Be very familiar with your airplane, it's limitations, and the POH. And it's probably just a pet peeve of mine, but for gosh sakes, have a clue about the lift equation and the Cl and Cd curves wrt AOA. Graphically derive the power curve at the blackboard. Be able to explain what kinetic energy is, and why it is important to maintain a precise airspeed on final. Some knowledge of aerodynamics and basic high school physics goes a long, long way in this business, because what we are doing is applied physics.
I have a question:
when weighed against cost, time, testing, currency/upgrade requirements and finally likely pay.
Is it worth it?
I'm considering doing it (not as a stepping stone) and I think that I'd be good at it and find it rewarding but what are the odds of finding it rewarding both mentally and financially?
when weighed against cost, time, testing, currency/upgrade requirements and finally likely pay.
Is it worth it?
I'm considering doing it (not as a stepping stone) and I think that I'd be good at it and find it rewarding but what are the odds of finding it rewarding both mentally and financially?
its not shaping up to bad for me, i'll have put 7000 ish into the rating, and i already have a job at its shaping up to be between 35-40K for year one as a class 4 (this would be if i stayed a class 4 for a whole year and didn't upgrade to class 3 etc. where the pay would increase)
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200hr Wonder
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Slappy the Squirrel
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That's pretty dang good pay for a class 4 instructorC-GGGQ wrote:its not shaping up to bad for me, i'll have put 7000 ish into the rating, and i already have a job at its shaping up to be between 35-40K for year one as a class 4 (this would be if i stayed a class 4 for a whole year and didn't upgrade to class 3 etc. where the pay would increase)
Where is this???C-GGGQ wrote:its not shaping up to bad for me, i'll have put 7000 ish into the rating, and i already have a job at its shaping up to be between 35-40K for year one as a class 4 (this would be if i stayed a class 4 for a whole year and didn't upgrade to class 3 etc. where the pay would increase)
C-KEEP
said i'd gotten offers, i'm currently working on my instructor rating, at 50 hours a pay period flying, 50*25=1250*2 pay periods a month =2500*12 months =30,000. I was quoted 50-70 hours a pay period 70 would push you to 39K. Instructor training is however the hardest rating i've ever had to get.
I've got about 5000 hours instructing. I don't do that anymore. It was great while I was doing it. But I got burnt out. If you're logging 140 hours a month instructing you're going to be a basket case in a year. In my experience count on 2 hours at the airport for every flight hour. That makes that $25/hr about $13/hr. And you'll be spending 70 hours a week at work. I averaged about 2 days off a month.
Don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed instructing. All that stuff about making you a better pilot etc. is very true. It was the second best job I ever had. Just wanted to burst that bubble about pay. Although, from what I see out there now the pay should be increasing just from demand.
Go ahead and get that rating, build up those hours, learn about flying and learn how to make Kraft dinner.
Don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed instructing. All that stuff about making you a better pilot etc. is very true. It was the second best job I ever had. Just wanted to burst that bubble about pay. Although, from what I see out there now the pay should be increasing just from demand.
Go ahead and get that rating, build up those hours, learn about flying and learn how to make Kraft dinner.
It IS the hardest rating yet, and i'm seriously considering whether it is for me or not. If teaching isn't for me i'm not going to screw some kid over just so i can get hours, i'll find a job doing something else.That's the best attitude to have. There is a lot of job satisfaction to be had training pilots, but as you're finding out, it's a lot of work too.C-GGGQ wrote:If teaching isn't for me i'm not going to screw some kid over just so i can get hours, i'll find a job doing something else.
Good Luck with the course!
For some people, teaching comes naturally, and the instructor rating is a cinch.
For most of us, however, that isn't the case.
I'm reminded of an interview I did a while ago back with a TV reporter, who had just watched me do some low-altitude aerobatics. Ya gotta understand, solo aerobatics isn't really that hard. You've got the whole box to yourself, crossbox wind corrections are easy - it's nowhere near as hard as formation aerobatics, perhaps one tenth the difficulty level. As Charlie Hillard once observed, the art of the solo airshow is to aim at the ground - but don't hit it.
Anyways, the TV reporter asked a few somewhat silly questions, like "Isn't that really hard?" Keeping in mind the above paragraph, my mouth ran away and I replied "Anything's easy if you know how"
Instructing, like anything else, is easy if you know how. For most of us though, being a good instructor is not something that comes naturally and easily - it must be earned. It's a pity that you can't earn a living wage at it - as soon as you get any good at it, you move on, and a brand-new guy replaces you, and he starts learning how to instruct.
For most of us, however, that isn't the case.
I'm reminded of an interview I did a while ago back with a TV reporter, who had just watched me do some low-altitude aerobatics. Ya gotta understand, solo aerobatics isn't really that hard. You've got the whole box to yourself, crossbox wind corrections are easy - it's nowhere near as hard as formation aerobatics, perhaps one tenth the difficulty level. As Charlie Hillard once observed, the art of the solo airshow is to aim at the ground - but don't hit it.
Anyways, the TV reporter asked a few somewhat silly questions, like "Isn't that really hard?" Keeping in mind the above paragraph, my mouth ran away and I replied "Anything's easy if you know how"
Instructing, like anything else, is easy if you know how. For most of us though, being a good instructor is not something that comes naturally and easily - it must be earned. It's a pity that you can't earn a living wage at it - as soon as you get any good at it, you move on, and a brand-new guy replaces you, and he starts learning how to instruct.
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Schooner.Cdn
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I guess this is as good of place as any to ask throw this out there. I, like many reading/posting here am in the process of completing my class 4 and am wondering if any of you recall funny/practical phrases that your instructors used during your flight training to help explain different phases of exercises. Ex: I trained with an ex military pilot who used to say "lights (as req), camera(transponder), Direction (set DG), check the clock, the sock, lets rock" for a line up check, or "If your hands are working hard, your head is working hard" when trimming etc etc ...
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
For teaching Diversions I always use:Schooner.Cdn wrote: wondering if any of you recall funny/practical phrases that your instructors used during your flight training to help explain different phases of exercises.
Circle Circle Line, Heading Distance Time, Tell Someone And You'll Be Fine
Oh FOC, here we go!
F-uel
O-bsticles
C-ompass
Or when i teach range and endurance (my most unfavorite PGI, but yet i find to actually be quite useful to the student) and the Induced Drag Portion, i always describe Lift as Bill Cox's (from plane and pilot mag)-
TINSTAAFL
There's
No
Such
Thing
As
A
Free
Lunch
Basically saying, you can't have lift without drag.
My CFI has 3 instructor candidates right now who all seem to be getting stuck with their PGIs. They were in the class room after Ground School one day teaching eachother their turn PGIs. I'll tell you what, my head was spinning after listening to them. I don't think i've ever heard more big words in one sentance after listening to those guys. If I can offer one suggestion to Instructor Canditates, keep the PGI's simple... or work Simple-Complex. Don't start with big words without defining them first, and if you don't want to define them, then simply don't use them. I think you can show someone Centripital Force easier than trying to define it (use a diagram out of the FTM or use an experiment). Think simple, make it light and fun in the classroom. When a students eyes start glazing over, he/she stopped listening too you 10 minutes ago....
BTW - Do yourself a favor and don't work any more than 65-75 MAX hours a MONTH. You start doing the school and your students a huge disfavor when you start exhausting yourself. Don't flight instruct for the money. do it for the love of flying and teaching others how. If you stick with instructing for any more than 3 years, the money becomes better and the opportunities within flight training are great. (Flight test examiner, CFI, Class 1, PRM). All these things and many more can contribute to more money and probably a salary.
GF.
