Edmonton Regional Airports Authority at it again.....

DA900 · Post by **DA900** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:52 am

Was watching the news about air service being flown to northern communities out of the City Center Airport (muni). Then had to laugh at ERAA trying to defend themselves again. Bragging about having the fastest growing airport yet still is threatened by those 10 pax flying in from Lethbridge. I wonder if that Traci Bednard even listens to what she is spewing. Keep lying to the people of Edmonton ERAA you have been doing it for 10 years and going.

This is the video link. It is under "flying high". Don't know how long it will be up.
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/edmonton/index.html

I guess it's under the heading of "Old debate new twist"

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:47 pm

Wow Traci is a waste of space. She is proud that three new companies are starting into the Muni but when it comes to Southern companies stay the hell out, the city voted it that way

sinjin · Post by **sinjin** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:28 pm

I like the fact that the southern companies are in at the international airport, of corse I am working at an FBO that is servicing Integra Air so I am a little biased

Adam44 · Post by **Adam44** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:57 pm

Oh yes, Lethbridge passengers flying to YXD certainly threaten YEG's ability to get more U.S. and international non-stop flights. I'm certain every Lethbridge passenger flying to the U.S. would connect in Edmonton if it were available to them.

longjon · Post by **longjon** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:01 am

I wish they would look outside the box and promote the Muni as a business tool.

Maybe the phrase outside the box doesn't apply here. More like common sence.

Edmonton is closer to the tar sands than Calgary and big multinationals are moving in to buy up the leases. Promote the Airport and get these people to set up shop in Edmonton not Calgary.

We all know their mandate is to close the place and build condos and a few yrs after this is done someone will say "man we had this airoprt right here and we screwed up big time by selling it off" history has a way doing this

Conquest Driver · Post by **Conquest Driver** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:44 am

I remember the bad old days before airport consolidation. I had occasion to fly to England. The service, at that time, was so abysmal that I was forced to take a non-stop to London Gatwick.

Then along came consolidation, with the promise of even better service. Once again I had to fly to England. Who knows, maybe I’d get a flight to Heathrow, or more frequent service, or something??

So, I boarded,…..a Dash 8, to…..Calgary. From there I connected onto an A-340 to London. In the bad old days, at least the connecting flight would have originated somewhere convenient. The Municipal was about 15 minutes and about a $20 cab ride from my place. The Edmonton/Red Deer International is about a half hour and $50. That assumes I don’t get tied up in the traffic jam at South Edmonton Common.

Coming back we were delayed out of London. So this time I not only had to connect through Calgary, but I had to madly race through the Calgary terminal to catch the very last Dash 8 back to the Edmonton/Red Deer International. From there it was the aforementioned $50 cab ride back home. At least I didn’t have to worry about the traffic jam at South Edmonton Common at that time of night.

Ahh, I obviously do not understand the big picture; but somehow I preferred the situation before consolidation.

Liftdump · Post by **Liftdump** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:33 am

Jan Riemer for mayor I say

Navajo-dude · Post by **Navajo-dude** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:20 pm

Seems like they're trying to make YEG profitable, at the expense of what's best for the city of Edmonton.

DA900 · Post by **DA900** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:42 pm

Lurch wrote:Wow Traci is a waste of space. She is proud that three new companies are starting into the Muni but when it comes to Southern companies stay the hell out, the city voted it that way

On the plus side my buddy says she has a real nice ass!

cyxe · Post by **cyxe** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:29 pm

Conquest Driver wrote:I remember the bad old days before airport consolidation. I had occasion to fly to England. The service, at that time, was so abysmal that I was forced to take a non-stop to London Gatwick.

Then along came consolidation, with the promise of even better service. Once again I had to fly to England. Who knows, maybe I’d get a flight to Heathrow, or more frequent service, or something??

So, I boarded,…..a Dash 8, to…..Calgary. From there I connected onto an A-340 to London. In the bad old days, at least the connecting flight would have originated somewhere convenient. The Municipal was about 15 minutes and about a $20 cab ride from my place. The Edmonton/Red Deer International is about a half hour and $50. That assumes I don’t get tied up in the traffic jam at South Edmonton Common.

Coming back we were delayed out of London. So this time I not only had to connect through Calgary, but I had to madly race through the Calgary terminal to catch the very last Dash 8 back to the Edmonton/Red Deer International. From there it was the aforementioned $50 cab ride back home. At least I didn’t have to worry about the traffic jam at South Edmonton Common at that time of night.

Ahh, I obviously do not understand the big picture; but somehow I preferred the situation before consolidation.

That was then.

Direct flights to London (LHR) have been back for a while now and are doing very well.

Pax #'s are going through the roof, its crazy over there. AC and WJ have been beefing up service, but WJ especially has been very good to that airport.

The driving time / distance to that airport is comparable to dozens of north american cities.

DA900 · Post by **DA900** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:42 am

cyxe wrote:
Conquest Driver wrote:I remember the bad old days before airport consolidation. I had occasion to fly to England. The service, at that time, was so abysmal that I was forced to take a non-stop to London Gatwick.

Then along came consolidation, with the promise of even better service. Once again I had to fly to England. Who knows, maybe I’d get a flight to Heathrow, or more frequent service, or something??

So, I boarded,…..a Dash 8, to…..Calgary. From there I connected onto an A-340 to London. In the bad old days, at least the connecting flight would have originated somewhere convenient. The Municipal was about 15 minutes and about a $20 cab ride from my place. The Edmonton/Red Deer International is about a half hour and $50. That assumes I don’t get tied up in the traffic jam at South Edmonton Common.

Coming back we were delayed out of London. So this time I not only had to connect through Calgary, but I had to madly race through the Calgary terminal to catch the very last Dash 8 back to the Edmonton/Red Deer International. From there it was the aforementioned $50 cab ride back home. At least I didn’t have to worry about the traffic jam at South Edmonton Common at that time of night.

Ahh, I obviously do not understand the big picture; but somehow I preferred the situation before consolidation.
That was then.

Direct flights to London (LHR) have been back for a while now and are doing very well.

Pax #'s are going through the roof, its crazy over there. AC and WJ have been beefing up service, but WJ especially has been very good to that airport.

The driving time / distance to that airport is comparable to dozens of north american cities.

So after 11 years Edmonton has 1 scheduled international flight to show for consolidation.
Yes that seems worth it. I guess those 747 circling overhead just waiting to land if Edmonton consolidates found somewhere else to land.

As for the pax#'s that sure wouldn't have anything to do with a booming economy. I'm surprised the ERAA doesn't take credit for the boom as well.

C-206 · Post by **C-206** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:23 pm

Guys/Girls like cyxe have no clue, can you imagine how the
City Centre Airport and the City of Edmonton,
would have fared if Westjet got in before consolidation.
THE biggest mistake the city ever made, period.

Liftdump · Post by **Liftdump** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:59 pm

C-O-N-V-E-N-I-E-N-C-E

tailgunner · Post by **tailgunner** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:34 pm

Have any of you actually been to YEG nowadays? The apron is very full after 2200. Something like 25- 30 AC overnighting. AC does a non- stop to London, with Transat right behind them. There are seasonal AC and Westjet flights to the Carribean / Cuba all winter.
If the short sighted, " lets keep the muni open" crowd had actually won we would now have a vibrant YXD full of 1900's and Dash-8's loaded with Edmontonians heading to CYYC to fly anywhere longer than CYVR. The 5700 ft runways just are not long enough to carry people and gas to any destinations farther than 600nm. The YEG would be a shell, most likely closed due to few movements..( MIRABEL rings a bell) . How convienent would it be to have to get on a 1900 , fly to CYYC then switch AC to get to Toronto, Montreal, or Ottawa. What about the non- stop to Halifax that now runs? Face it boys, the City Centre was and is a restricted future airport. Runways way to short, no growth areas available, and residential neighbourhoods surrounding it.
I say close the whole thing. Sell off the land, and help the existing companies relocate to YEG. Build a 12 - 30 parallel runway on the North side of YEG ( 5000 ft should due), turn the existing 12 - 30 into a cat 2 capable runway, with all the improvements, and the whole region would be far better off.

Arthur Q · Post by **Arthur Q** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:10 pm

tailgunner wrote:Have any of you actually been to YEG nowadays? The apron is very full after 2200. Something like 25- 30 AC overnighting. AC does a non- stop to London, with Transat right behind them. There are seasonal AC and Westjet flights to the Carribean / Cuba all winter.
If the short sighted, " lets keep the muni open" crowd had actually won we would now have a vibrant YXD full of 1900's and Dash-8's loaded with Edmontonians heading to CYYC to fly anywhere longer than CYVR. The 5700 ft runways just are not long enough to carry people and gas to any destinations farther than 600nm. The YEG would be a shell, most likely closed due to few movements..( MIRABEL rings a bell) . How convienent would it be to have to get on a 1900 , fly to CYYC then switch AC to get to Toronto, Montreal, or Ottawa. What about the non- stop to Halifax that now runs? Face it boys, the City Centre was and is a restricted future airport. Runways way to short, no growth areas available, and residential neighbourhoods surrounding it.

I say close the whole thing. Sell off the land, and help the existing companies relocate to YEG. Build a 12 - 30 parallel runway on the North side of YEG ( 5000 ft should due), turn the existing 12 - 30 into a cat 2 capable runway, with all the improvements, and the whole region would be far better off.

Boy ol boy talk about short sighted. I guess us dummies don't have any idea what we are talking about. If you think YEG would close because scheduled flights were still allowed into YXD give your head a shake. Both airports can and have operated together. If you think a flights would not be still operating to those destinations from YEG you are out of touch. The city could more then ever handle two airports.

Close it you say. I sure hope all the medivacs patients, corporate flights, and people who still depend on that airport for a job think a little smarter then you.

W5 · Post by W5 » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:13 pm

C-206 wrote:Guys/Girls like cyxe have no clue, can you imagine how the
City Centre Airport and the City of Edmonton,
would have fared if Westjet got in before consolidation.
THE biggest mistake the city ever made, period.

Actually WestJet started before consolidation, and decided to go to EG from the getgo.

skyismine · Post by **skyismine** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:17 pm

Well said Tailgunner, if folks actually paid attention to YEG they would see how far it has come.From the mayor of Grande prarie saying ''Edmonton's a 737 city'' to now.What a friggin joke...I think YXD could stay open as a corporate airport similar to what several cities in the south have but not beyond that...But then you have the developers who are now also pushing to have YXD closed because of height restrictions that recently washed a new development away that had the new tallest tower in Alberta as a piece of it.If it hampers the downtown cores growth then I hate to say it...Its become a problem....

tailgunner · Post by **tailgunner** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:09 pm

Arthur Q...
Both airports did operate together...with a steady decline at YEG and lots of dashes at YXD.
My MIRABEL comment is still valid. It and Dorval operated at the same time....A steady decline at one versus......
Most medevac patients are not airlifted until they have reached a certain stability. The extra 20 minutes on the highway , in a majority of cases makes no difference. Critical patients could be transfered to Leduc ER. Leduc hospital could receive additional funding to bring it to a higher level of ER. STARS still flies directly to the hospitals anyway. There are no close hospitals at YVR, YYC, YYZ, etc......Corporate clients would need to adapt their plans.......YYZ takes 60 minute commute. YVR to downtown can easily be over 45 minutes.....

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:21 pm

I think historically PWA and CPA operated a 737 to yvr, yyc, ywg, yxy milk run, yzf and of course yyc. other than yxy, and yzf how many of those folks needed to connect to yyz, not many as they were going to the government seat about a 5 minute cab drive away. My Aunt is still pissed that they gave her a false bill of goods during the plebiscite. TG get over yerself there are not enough folks in the edmonton area, for the majors to bother, easier to shuttle them to YYC, and charge them the extra

lawndart · Post by **lawndart** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:15 pm

Most medevac patients are not airlifted until they have reached a certain stability. The extra 20 minutes on the highway , in a majority of cases makes no difference. Critical patients could be transfered to Leduc ER. Leduc hospital could receive additional funding to bring it to a higher level of ER.

Or they could just fly the extra 25 minutes to Calgary and use the Peter Lougheed. Heck, why not include the Royal Alex with YXD in the property deal?

skyismine · Post by **skyismine** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:19 pm

I can tell you on a medivac basis that alot of medflights operate through YEG, Kalitta,Aeromed,Foxflight,Canadian Global, and Chipola almost all go through YEG especially with the new Anthony Henday expansion which gets you from point A to B without the traffic lights...YEG is not that far away..Why does that friggin comment still stand???What a joke...By the way rigpiggy keep on rigpiggin you obviously dont know that Edmonton is almost on par with Calgary population wise...Good day.

Edmonton Metro pop 1,032,000 approx

Calgary Metro pop 1,079,000 approx

Source;Stats Canada.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:50 am

of the 50 odd flights out of yeg today only about 15 are farther than 600nm, i had boldfaced them in the document, so if it doesn't transfer diy

US Airways103Las Vegas
Air Canada114Toronto
United Airlines6744Denver
Delta3776Salt Lake City
Horizon2373Seattle
Air Canada Jazz8359Grande Prairie
WestJet30Calgary, Abbotsford
WestJet43Kelowna
Air Canada235Vancouver
US Airways2711Phoenix
Air Canada Jazz8133Calgary
United Airlines7566Chicago
Canadian North468Hay River
WestJet696Winnipeg
Air Canada4234San Francisco
United Airlines6487San Francisco
WestJet139Fort McMurray
Air Canada Jazz8217Yellowknife
WestJet11Vancouver
First Air951Yellowknife
Canadian North466Norman Wells
Air Canada Jazz8380Fort McMurray
WestJet28Calgary
Air Canada104Ottawa
Central Mtn Air791Fort St John
Canadian North444Yellowknife
Northwest1022Minneapolis
Air Canada106Toronto
Air Canada Jazz8594Los Angeles
Air Canada Jazz8135Calgary
WestJet501Victoria
Air Canada Jazz8273Vancouver
Air Canada237Vancouver
WestJet152Calgary
Air Canada Jazz8508Winnipeg
WestJet196Toronto
WestJet15Vancouver
WestJet750Montreal1
Air Canada Jazz8137Calgary
Air Canada Jazz8237Victoria
Canadian North9410Yellowknife
Air Canada Jazz8382Fort McMurray
First Air953Yellowknife
Canadian North438Yellowknife,
WestJet125Vancouver
Air Canada Jazz8139Calgary
WestJet654Toronto,
WestJet657Abbotsford
WestJet80Calgary,
Air Canada239Vancouver

BTW I grew up in the Chuk, and still have family there , yes it has grown.

tailgunner · Post by **tailgunner** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:20 am

Thanks for the info rigpiggy.
Nearly 1/3 of the flying out of YEG is over 600nm!!! That is a great stat. So if we transfered allof the shorter ranged flights to YXD then YEG would have 15 flights???? Not enough to keep an airport open I would say. My argument stands that the YEG would have died if we had not consolidated. Plus, where would all the AC be loaded at CYXD? Surely the 3 gated terminal would have proved a bit tight???

Sneeker · Post by **Sneeker** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:11 am

skyismine wrote:I can tell you on a medivac basis that alot of medflights operate through YEG, Kalitta,Aeromed,Foxflight,Canadian Global, and Chipola .

honestly How many medivac's do you get a week though????? Dont throw a bs number either. Between Shell and Executive how many. 1 mabey 2 per or split between the 2?

skyismine · Post by **skyismine** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:54 pm

EFC seems to get most of the transborder medivacs and some canadian aswell,Canadian Global, keewatin still use shell.It varies,summer tends to be slow for medivacs,but come winter when Canadian's tend to travel south more it can pick way up seeing several a week.Right now seeing one a week would be pushing it,during the winter a few a week at most.Although with a Lear 35 being based at YEG for the winter this year for the hope program that should increase it slightly...