Seneca requirements

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:06 pm

Cat Driver wrote: May God, Allah and all the other Gods known to mankind protect us as we fly with this new age breed.

Don't worry Cat, the computers won't let them actually "fly" the airplanes....

stl

niwre · Post by **niwre** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:07 pm

Any rich kid, can go to Brampton flying club and get all the licenses, the question is.....will he be able to fly professionally?

How is this comment supposed to be interpreted? To a reader it has the innuendo of Seneca grads are more professional than Brampton people.

Will this rich kid be able to get above 80's on mechanics, physics, communication, aeronautics, statics, fluids, etc etc, while at the same time pass all of his flying tests?

Anyone one can take these courses, its a matter of passing them. Just like if anyone could be a pilot then we would all be pilots. Some just dont cut the mustard. Give it a year and you'll know what I mean. I hope you do well. Some of the standardized or entrance testing is crap anyways. I know people who would need a calculator to figure out what the square root of 9 is yet they make marvelous pilots.

I never suggested anything, don't call me a cynic. I suggested what i said. Nothing more and nothing less.

Uhhhh..... Time for the comm study I see....
So what are you suggesting?

I'm too working my ass off to pay for my school. Many of us are on the same boat, financially speaking. So don't expect more credit than anybody else, as we all work hard to pay off our career.

Not looking for extra credit.

saucer_driver · Post by **saucer_driver** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:46 pm

Seneca Grads = professional?

hm, maybe in toronto land....I had to tell two of these idiots to shut up in the cockpit because they were blabbing about how anyone who hasn't flown into pearson with someone "experienced" first would get violated...their idea of CRM was to sit there and blab at you instead of, i dont know tuning the radio's, pointing out taxiways, reading checklists to help out.....professional my ass

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:58 pm

Wow! They can handle Pearson? I'm totally down on my knees now. GMAFB!

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:33 am

Jeppesen,

No offence intended, but you seem to be confusing "attitude" with ego. It's one thing to be confident, but it's a completely different thing when someone thinks they are superior to others, especially ones who are far more experienced than themselves.

Im sure the education and training you get at Seneca is good, but that doesn't mean you are going straight into a jet. The training I received was also very good. I spent more hours and years in the classroom than people at Seneca do and graduated top of the class with a +90% average with many scholarships, but that doesn't mean that I deserve a job over them. Guess what, I have classmates who are much farther ahead in their careers than myself. Even students who were 1-2 years behind me are flying bigger planes than myself. I have still yet to make more than $30,000, close to 4 years after I graduated. Not quite what I was expecting, but that's the reality.

Like you, I have classmates on boeings, airbuses, corporate jets, Jazz,, etc, just as there are Seneca grads on similar types. The fact that they went to UWO or any other school probably was not the reason they got the job they are at. Im sure it had a lot more to do with their experience, their background, and in the majority of cases, it was who they knew.

Although Jazz is hiring fresh grads, this program was designed as a "pilot" program and may end up being only temporary. Don't expect to go to Cargojet or Georgian once you are done with school though, these types of companies still want 1500-2000hrs. I just think your efforts will be better spent trying to secure a job as a bannertower, pipeline patrol, aerial photographer, instrructor, etc, because that is what most 250hr pilots go into. Apply to other companies too, who knows, you might end up getting lucky. But try to focus your efforts on what is most realistic.

Anyways, try to enjoy school while you can because once you are done, you will probably end up wishing you could go back

sigmet77 · Post by **sigmet77** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:17 am

Well said.

Alex YCV · Post by **Alex YCV** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:11 pm

C-HRIS, in many ways there appears to be a huge training hurdle between the couple of hundred hours to get a commercial license and the hiring that happens around 1500 hours. I have looked at it (from the standpoint of someone looking to train) and I have to say it is a very daunting "hole" in the system.

From what I can gather, newly minted commercial pilots make the additional 1300-1800 hours flying around in some pretty questionable circumstances, from barely airworthy planes, to pay for seat time arrangments. It almost seems that in order to get your hours, you have to be just about willing to "drop trou" and take it for 1800 hours.

Maybe I am missing something, but that is what I am seeing around here so far.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:37 pm

it is a very daunting "hole" (200 to 1500 hrs) in the system

What system? Who told you there was infrastructure in place to take you from 200hr wonder to ATPL? Why should there only be one approved route?

There is an awful lot you will learn, in the trip from 200 to 1500 hours. You cannot learn it in a classroom - you have to go out and get the real world experience any which way you choose.

Alex YCV · Post by **Alex YCV** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:37 pm

Hedley, I think that is the point. I suspect that many decent potential ATPL candidates get lost in the interim steps, the "taking any job for hours" thing. Already that people have plunked down near about 50k to make obtain the CPL, and then "woosh" and there isn't much.

I would be interested to see what percentage of CPL holders actually end up with commercial jobs and enough hours to qualify for a starter airline job.

costermonger · Post by **costermonger** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:03 pm

Alex YCV wrote:From what I can gather, newly minted commercial pilots make the additional 1300-1800 hours flying around in some pretty questionable circumstances, from barely airworthy planes, to pay for seat time arrangments. It almost seems that in order to get your hours, you have to be just about willing to "drop trou" and take it for 1800 hours.

It probably seems pretty daunting if your main exposure to aviation is the horror stories you'll read around here. There are jobs out there, good ones. Especially right now.

Jeppesen · Post by **Jeppesen** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:52 pm

No offence intended, but you seem to be confusing "attitude" with ego. It's one thing to be confident, but it's a completely different thing when someone thinks they are superior to others, especially ones who are far more experienced than themselves.

Non taken, allowed me to call you friend, please

My friend, you're totally right. But I've never, not for a single moment in my life, felt superior in any way to anybody else,in fact, I've actually felt inferior to many others for reasons I can't even explain.

Im sure the education and training you get at Seneca is good, but that doesn't mean you are going straight into a jet. The training I received was also very good.

I've never said I was going straight into a jet, all I said is that some of our students are getting into jazz, cargojet, and PIA. Do I hope to be one of them when the time comes? off course i hope so, and I guess many people at my age will wish for the same to happen.

I spent more hours and years in the classroom than people at Seneca do and graduated top of the class with a +90% average with many scholarships, but that doesn't mean that I deserve a job over them. Guess what, I have classmates who are much farther ahead in their careers than myself. Even students who were 1-2 years behind me are flying bigger planes than myself. I have still yet to make more than $30,000, close to 4 years after I graduated. Not quite what I was expecting, but that's the reality.

I understand you, not always the best job goes to the smartest guy, that happens more often than it should.

Like you, I have classmates on boeings, airbuses, corporate jets, Jazz,, etc, just as there are Seneca grads on similar types. The fact that they went to UWO or any other school probably was not the reason they got the job they are at. Im sure it had a lot more to do with their experience, their background, and in the majority of cases, it was who they knew.

I agree with you 100%

Although Jazz is hiring fresh grads, this program was designed as a "pilot" program and may end up being only temporary. Don't expect to go to Cargojet or Georgian once you are done with school though, these types of companies still want 1500-2000hrs.

Like I said, I'm not "expecting", but I will lie to you if I don't say that I hope for a shot at Jazz, CargoJet, or anything else at the same level, that is pretty much every young pilot's dream.

I just think your efforts will be better spent trying to secure a job as a bannertower, pipeline patrol, aerial photographer, instrructor, etc, because that is what most 250hr pilots go into. Apply to other companies too, who knows, you might end up getting lucky. But try to focus your efforts on what is most realistic.

I'll be willing to do anything just to build experience, anything that will allowed me to fly and eat at Red Lobster

Anyways, try to enjoy school while you can because once you are done, you will probably end up wishing you could go back

I am indeed having the best time of my life. I love all of my courses and I'm surrounded by people who shared my interests. Hopefully something good awaits me, who knows, but in any case I'm willing to give all up just to make my dream come true.

I apologize if I ever sounded arrogant, I'm exactly the opposite, but you guys need to understand too, that when some of you find out I'm from Seneca you take all of my comments like a mix of arrogance and ego. You don't actually take the time to read them, you take for granted right away that I'm 6'2, wear a pair of aviator shades and an enormous black leather Seneca jacket.

I actually don't wear a pilot's shirt, my shoes are the ones my dad gave me, they're very tight since my size is 12 and my dad's is 10. My pants where a gift and my backpack is the same one I had since grade 10. I'm on OSAP and feeling sometimes, like I said before, inferior to many of my roommates. I don't want any pity from anyone, but I do want advices and knowledge...but that for sure...has to be free

You all take care, and we'll see around

Speedbrakes · Post by **Speedbrakes** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:50 pm

I graduated from Seneca a few years ago and up until I got my first flying job it was the greatest time in my life.

I respect anyone who made it through that program because it is quite rigorous and can be very difficult at times. I am proud to have graduated from Seneca and it pains me when I see people painting every Seneca grad with the same brush.

Seneca is great for people who are serious about flying as a career because the flying is subsidized and allows people such as myself, the ability to train without having to bear the enormous cost. (This has since changed with the degree program as the tuition has now greatly increased)

But you will never ever hear me say that I am better than anyone else because I went to Seneca. Anyone who has gone through all the training, all the crap, all the TC bullsh!t and stress of acquiring a pilot's license has my respect -- no matter where they trained.

Best of luck to all!