my classI says you need full power,release the breaks then takeoff at Vr. but the TC examiner told me that I needed 10 degress flaps,full power,realease the breaks and during the roll keep the noise high and you will t/o early because of the ground affect, the hold the noise to horizon until airspeed builds up then flaps up. isnt the 2nd method for softfield takeoff? like I kept on telling the examiner that this is how i been told to do it and the 2nd method is for softfield.
so I would like you guys to give me your opinion on this. and also which method would you use for a check out at a new school?
short field T/O without obst
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moetorious
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First and always, do it the way your POH recommends.
Having said that, it sounds like your talking about a 172. For what its worth, in the 172 standing on the brakes with full power, then rotating and holdin 63mph I beleive it was, is a great way to clear an obstacle (tree crane whatever).
Using 10 degrees of flap, then get the nose up early, and get into ground effect is the quickest way to get the wheels off the ground. You will not be able to climb out this way, so it is a no obstacle type proceedure. I have also found that this can be don on a rolling start from the hold short position. Seems to get you airborne quiker than the standing on the brakes method.
Anyways, that is I beleive the methods outlined in the C172 POH, and seems to work well.
Having said that, it sounds like your talking about a 172. For what its worth, in the 172 standing on the brakes with full power, then rotating and holdin 63mph I beleive it was, is a great way to clear an obstacle (tree crane whatever).
Using 10 degrees of flap, then get the nose up early, and get into ground effect is the quickest way to get the wheels off the ground. You will not be able to climb out this way, so it is a no obstacle type proceedure. I have also found that this can be don on a rolling start from the hold short position. Seems to get you airborne quiker than the standing on the brakes method.
Anyways, that is I beleive the methods outlined in the C172 POH, and seems to work well.
Wahunga!
Read the POH
There isn't a standard method of Short Field T/O that works with every airplane.
By the sound of it you are in a C-172, the POH states that you should T/O without flap if there is an obstacle, If there is no obstacle you should T/O with flap.
The flaps reduce your T/O roll but decrease your climb performance
There isn't a standard method of Short Field T/O that works with every airplane.
By the sound of it you are in a C-172, the POH states that you should T/O without flap if there is an obstacle, If there is no obstacle you should T/O with flap.
The flaps reduce your T/O roll but decrease your climb performance
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I've heard of old bush guys staying in ground effect until right before the trees, then zooming up and once over tree height, lowering the nose to get back speed.
Just a story I've heard.
Me, I just do it by the POH for any test (where there are only imaginary obstacles).
The rest of the time, I back track.
-istp
Just a story I've heard.
Me, I just do it by the POH for any test (where there are only imaginary obstacles).
The rest of the time, I back track.
-istp
No. In the soft field case, getting that nosewheel off the ground quickly will let you accelerate faster. only 2 wheels draging through the muck vise 3. (tricycle gear of course). On a short prepared field you are going quite slow when the mains leave the ground. I can't imagine that much extra drag happening. Besides, what is the recommended speed? When I do this I do not look at the ASI. It is all done by feel. It is very important to be looking outside.AV8OR wrote:Wouldn't holding the elevator neutral (as opposed to up) allow the a/c to accelerate quicker and then rotate at the minimum recommended speed. Wouldn't you get airborne sooner? Sounds like a soft field takeoff to me.
Wahunga!
Short Field with Obsticle for 172 (At least from what I've been told)
Breaks Full, Full Power, NO Flaps, acclerate to 50 knots, rotate at 50 Knots, climb out at 59 knots until obsticle is cleared and attitude adjust for Vy.
Flaps on takeoff for 1976 c172M
'The use of 10 degree flaps will shorten the ground run approx. 10%, but this advantage is lost in the climb to a 50-foot-obsticle"....."
Of course that said, I did a short field with Obsticle takeoff on my Commercial. It was a hot day and the examiner was heavier than my instructor.... needless to say he wasn't too impressed when the stall horn went off.
As for TC, if in doubt show them the procedure in your POH. They can't argue with you then.
Breaks Full, Full Power, NO Flaps, acclerate to 50 knots, rotate at 50 Knots, climb out at 59 knots until obsticle is cleared and attitude adjust for Vy.
Flaps on takeoff for 1976 c172M
'The use of 10 degree flaps will shorten the ground run approx. 10%, but this advantage is lost in the climb to a 50-foot-obsticle"....."
Of course that said, I did a short field with Obsticle takeoff on my Commercial. It was a hot day and the examiner was heavier than my instructor.... needless to say he wasn't too impressed when the stall horn went off.
As for TC, if in doubt show them the procedure in your POH. They can't argue with you then.
In the old 172's it is 10 flaps for normal short and no flaps for short with an obstacle. Newer 172's (r and SP models) the POH only has one procedure and its 10 degress flaps no matter what for short field. No matter what your examiner is right since new or old a normal short field without obstacle is 10 flaps.
First define what is a Normal take-off for the airplane you fly!!!
Then you can make an acurrate assessment of the Take -off you are about to do .
A normal take-off is one that is usually done on a dry hard surfaced runway of adequate length into the wind at or less than max take -off weight .
So what makes your take-off a short field ???
Minimum Ground Run ???
Obstacle ?
Intersection departure ?
Damage on the runway ?
Less runway than you are used to ?
Tailwind in the harbour ?
Currents ???
Do you need to get full static rpm before brakes release ???
Some older POH 's do not give static RPM .Ask the AME's if you cannot find it in your poh /afm
What do you usually need on a standard day sea level at 15c ?
What do you think you would need at 30 c and an elevation of five thousand ??
Do not forget the four major factors that will change any take -off profile
The four H 's
Hot
Heavy
Humid
High altitude
Any one or combination of these factors can turn a take off on a six thousand foot runway into requiring the minimum ground run short field technique be used .
Once you learn and know how to fly the wing you would be surprised at how slow you can get into ground effect safely .Once you lose the ground drag the aircraft will speed up to a safe speed that will let you leave ground effect .And climb out as normal
Now define a normal climb out and you see how easy this gets
Now who wants to see a take-off 20 kts below VMC ???
Then you can make an acurrate assessment of the Take -off you are about to do .
A normal take-off is one that is usually done on a dry hard surfaced runway of adequate length into the wind at or less than max take -off weight .
So what makes your take-off a short field ???
Minimum Ground Run ???
Obstacle ?
Intersection departure ?
Damage on the runway ?
Less runway than you are used to ?
Tailwind in the harbour ?
Currents ???
Do you need to get full static rpm before brakes release ???
Some older POH 's do not give static RPM .Ask the AME's if you cannot find it in your poh /afm
What do you usually need on a standard day sea level at 15c ?
What do you think you would need at 30 c and an elevation of five thousand ??
Do not forget the four major factors that will change any take -off profile
The four H 's
Hot
Heavy
Humid
High altitude
Any one or combination of these factors can turn a take off on a six thousand foot runway into requiring the minimum ground run short field technique be used .
Once you learn and know how to fly the wing you would be surprised at how slow you can get into ground effect safely .Once you lose the ground drag the aircraft will speed up to a safe speed that will let you leave ground effect .And climb out as normal
Now define a normal climb out and you see how easy this gets
Now who wants to see a take-off 20 kts below VMC ???
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moetorious
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