Keystone wants how much?????

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:22 pm

I hear Keystone (you remember them. They run "Navagliders" out of YWG) is asking pilots to pay around ten grand up front for a Beech 200 Captain seat. I says, "pardon?" Man, I thought paying for a job at VAL, or the Bear was bad....Keystone?? Come on, tell me it's just a dirty lie...please...nobody could be THAT stupid......or could they?

Busted · Post by **Busted** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:35 pm

That is for either seat in any of his machines, and it is in house training - no sim or any good stuff that actually warant 10g's.

Oh ya and if you divert for gas or miss some place where you were supposed to go for gas he is expecting you to continue on to YWG where gas is cheaper. The latest guy that he is taking to court quit the other day because of the above, and said the the reserve gas was to be used not just carried around.

Can you say Portage and Main this time - not Logan as they proved it was too small for a hoe....

It is highway robbery and a miserable place to work.....
It is no longer "Canada's safest airline" quote from the owner...

ski_bum · Post by **ski_bum** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:50 pm

and I have heard you have to pay for your uniform and charts, days off are when he doesn't call you to fly, bonds on all planes, horrible pay, horrible machines, wow the list could probably go on too...

I heard they had 3 mechanics to a fleet of what 8?? Sounds like a good ratio to me...

There are a couple other companies in Winnipeg that look for King Air Captians frequently, wait it out...

My rant for the day...

Apache64_ · Post by **Apache64_** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:20 pm

You also pay for the examiner on your ride, and the type rating fee if you want one.

Cheers

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:00 am

Pilots still work for this guy. They still pony up ten large for crap training. They still push the envelope with fuel. Nothing ever changes. Why? Because pilots are stupid. Yes, they are. No other industry would get away with this kind of crap. Transport Canada sure isn't going to do anything. They sit in their ivory tower, and allow this to happen just down the road. The owner isn't going to change. Somebody else will die here. Yes, they will. You can't push your fuel envelope, as part of an unwritten SOP and not have it blow up in your face. Eventually.
There are other companies that'd hire PPC'd 'ho drivers over the phone. I could name a few, but I wont. But, leave Keystone. Put "I left Keystone, because I was told to burn my reserve fuel." right on your resume! Hell, that'd get you a job with me. The rest of us respect that kind of moxie!

2R · Post by 2R » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:36 am

How does that one get past the SMS system of the "safest " company in Canada ???
How did that one get past the Transport Canada Special Auditors ???

and fanny will appear as #$#$#$$ in 3,2,1

tsgas · Post by **tsgas** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:54 am

If pilots are stupid enough to work for this low life, then I.M.H.O., they deserve everything that they get.

Busted · Post by **Busted** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:02 am

he spends so much time in court and back dating letters that he supposedly sent to guys, that I hear he has a lawyer on staff......

I know for a fact that he has two for sure and mayby three court cases on the go right now.

I know one of the guys that he appointed as SMS manager, he was told that any ideas that he had to forget as transport was already looking the other way so they didn't need to worry about making any changes.

Stay far far away - Sky North is looking and actually treats there guys with respect

Chuck Ellsworth · Post by **Chuck Ellsworth** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:50 pm

How does that one get past the SMS system of the "safest " company in Canada ???
How did that one get past the Transport Canada Special Auditors ???

This has to be one of the best examples of how little the people in aviation in Canada understand about how the industry is regulated.

TC has zero intrest in safety or how aircraft are operated...SMS is the latest device that TC has come up with so they get further from regulating the industry.

It would be interesting to see how much money gets into the bank accounts of some high level TC managers from crooked operators to help TC to look the other way instead of at how things really are done in the industry.

2R · Post by 2R » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:22 pm

SMS = so much shit

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:01 am

He's got more than 5 court cases on the go now, they have a special room in ywg called the keystone room

Keystone? More like Keystoned.

What a bafoon that guy is.

Someone says transport? My ass.

The guy he has there as ops manager was an ex-transport, and, well, I'll just be quiet.

Hey bafoon, I know you read this forum, you're nothing but a moron

ski_bum · Post by **ski_bum** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:32 am

I heard another good one this weekend too, if a pilots not night current anymore they are expected to take care of it themselves, go rent a twin and do some night circuits.... Thats one classy operation.

ywg9 · Post by **ywg9** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:24 am

Just what i would have figured from keystone, and this is after you have forked over ten big ones. hmmm 10gs to go to calm air or 10gs to work at keystone who would you rather work for.

Krashman · Post by **Krashman** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:11 pm

I was an instructor that desperately wanted out of intructing...

I got offered a position right seat on their 200... (no auto pilot by the way... 'too much weight') he didn't ask for 10k up front but he asked me to sign a 'promisary note for 10k if I left inside of two years'...

here's the kicker!! pay was 1900 a month and after a year it went up to 2000!

Oh an even better when I asked about an upgrade or flying the navajo at some other point to get some MPIC... I was told I would still be on the hook for that initial 10k and have to sign a similar note for 5k on the ho....

I said thank you very much I'll be looking elsewhere.... what a joke!

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:38 pm

Ok, then, what would induce you to work for Keystone, then? More pay? Less bond? Different reputation?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend them..(nor am I associated in any way with them)

Busted · Post by **Busted** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:32 am

NEW OWNER

Chuck Ellsworth · Post by **Chuck Ellsworth** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:04 am

The guy he has there as ops manager was an ex-transport, and, well, I'll just be quiet.

Well I am not afraid to comment on the above statement.

I do not know the individual in question, however the fact that he/she is ex Transport Canada means that he/she is used to working in a system where dishonesty and outright disregard for the law and the rights of their clients is something they have grown used to.

Therefore if one of TC's worst examples of morally corrupt ex employees found work with a shady operator it would mean they have found employment with someone who fits their personality and work ethics or lack thereof.

Sort of like having an ex German SS guard from a concentration camp finding work as a school playground supervisor.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:15 am

Und ve vill have no playing on zee monkey bars......

Ballsssssss · Post by **Ballsssssss** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:23 pm

. . wrote:

The guy he has there as ops manager was an ex-transport, and, well, I'll just be quiet.
Well I am not afraid to comment on the above statement.

I do not know the individual in question, however the fact that he/she is ex Transport Canada means that he/she is used to working in a system where dishonesty and outright disregard for the law and the rights of their clients is something they have grown used to.

Therefore if one of TC's worst examples of morally corrupt ex employees found work with a shady operator it would mean they have found employment with someone who fits their personality and work ethics or lack thereof.

Sort of like having an ex German SS guard from a concentration camp finding work as a school playground supervisor.

Or a goat as your gardener!

3=47 · Post by **3=47** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:34 pm

what is it with winnipeg and companies like that?

Keystone sucks we all know that, but Fast Air and Kivalliq/Keewatin are really not much better, and at all three the pay is bad and you have to pay 10k up front!

Chuck Ellsworth · Post by **Chuck Ellsworth** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:48 pm

what is it with winnipeg and companies like that?

My guess is there is a pro-quid-pro perking in the background and someone is being payed off in some way.

For sure TCCA is one of the most morally corrupt government agencies to be found anywhere on the planet....right up there with Kenya and Nigeria.

Krashman · Post by **Krashman** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:17 am

what is it with winnipeg and companies like that?

Keystone sucks we all know that, but Fast Air and Kivalliq/Keewatin are really not much better, and at all three the pay is bad and you have to pay 10k up front!

but for the 10k at Keystone you get nothing... ay Keewatin at least they send you to Flight Safety where you do a great deal of learning about the machine

Krashman · Post by **Krashman** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:23 am

Ok, then, what would induce you to work for Keystone, then? More pay? Less bond? Different reputation?

I think a little better on all of these fronts...

here we are agian complaining about pay but it has to be said... Keystone has the lowest first officer pay grade in YWG. I'm not too sure about the captains.

The reputation is a very difficult thing to fix... whether management had some influence on their two incidents... its still up to the PIC to make sure the A/C has enough fuel to make it to your destination and (if its IFR which I'm pretty sure it was) all of the extra contingency fuel.

Busted · Post by **Busted** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:57 am

its still up to the PIC to make sure the A/C has enough fuel to make it to your destination

I agree that the PIC is responsible, but when you get the greenest 1000 hr drivers as the CAPT, they (MGT) are pressuring and threatening these guys with demotion or there jobs.

For a fact they demoted a guy 2 weeks ago for stopping for gas because he was running low. He has since told them to shove there right seat and is now being sued.

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:10 pm

. . wrote:

The guy he has there as ops manager was an ex-transport, and, well, I'll just be quiet.
Well I am not afraid to comment on the above statement.

I do not know the individual in question, however the fact that he/she is ex Transport Canada means that he/she is used to working in a system where dishonesty and outright disregard for the law and the rights of their clients is something they have grown used to.

Therefore if one of TC's worst examples of morally corrupt ex employees found work with a shady operator it would mean they have found employment with someone who fits their personality and work ethics or lack thereof.

Sort of like having an ex German SS guard from a concentration camp finding work as a school playground supervisor.

Well I would like to just say...NOT ALL TC guys & Gals are like that. I know where your comming from Cat BUT I don't like generalizing cuase there are some GREAT people who work at TC...The problem is that their managment & a great deal of their co-workers are realy bad. And if anything are getting worse as the bitter corrupt managment promote other like minded friends. BUT you can't say that they are all like that because I know of a few people in TC who do TRY to make a difference...its just realy hard because their hands are tied