Thank You Uncle Ralph...

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:15 pm

Hate to say "I told you so," but......

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story ... lties.html

Alberta losing billions on energy royalties: auditor general
Last Updated: Monday, October 1, 2007 | 1:44 PM MT
CBC News

The Alberta government knew at least three years ago that it was losing royalties from energy projects such as the oilsands, the province's auditor general said.

Fred Dunn came down hard on former energy ministers and their staff in his annual report, released Monday, saying the process for collecting royalties needs to be more transparent and accountable to Albertans.

The government itself has identified roughly $1 billion per year in royalties that were owed by energy companies but were never collected, Dunn said, adding that the principles of transparency and accountability have not been followed when it comes to oil and gas royalties.

Dunn said that up until recently, Albertans have been forced to file freedom-of-information requests to get a clearer picture of whether the full value of royalties was being collected, and whether royalty rates were fair and competitive.

His report also said the royalty holiday for new oilsands projects achieved its objectives years ago and is no longer necessary.

"This has all the appearance of being deliberate deceit, deliberate misleading of the people of Alberta by the senior people of this government. The people of Alberta should be furious," Alberta Liberal Leader Kevin Taft said when he saw the report.
Continue Article

The auditor general's review is the second major report in as many weeks to scrutinize the province's petroleum industry.

A government-appointed panel released a report Sept. 18 that said Albertans have not been getting their fair share of energy revenues, and it recommended raising royalty rates by 20 per cent, or $2 billion a year.

Members of Premier Ed Stelmach's Conservative government have been suggesting that the panel process was about looking forward and not looking back.

But NDP Leader Brian Mason wants the premier to acknowledge the royalty losses in the past.

"Mr. Stelmach has sat at that table all the way along. He should apologize to Albertans for the loss of billions of dollars of revenues because the government failed to bring in adequate royalties," Mason said.

The government is expected to announce its future plans for collecting royalties in a few weeks.

Oil and gas companies lashed out at the recommendation of a royalty hike, saying an increase would hurt the province's investment and growth potential.

EnCana Corp. threatened to cut $1 billion from its 2008 investments if the panel's recommendations are adopted. The company said it would cut 30 to 40 per cent of the $2.5 billion to $3 billion it plans to spend next year on Alberta-based activity.

EnCana said most of the cuts would be to its natural gas activity in areas of the province where the company says the proposed royalty plan would make its efforts uneconomic or uncompetitive.

"Even without that future gas-production growth, under the recommended changes EnCana's royalties on Crown lands would effectively double, assuming current gas prices," EnCana president and CEO Randy Eresman said.

Eresman said his company is open to changes to Alberta's royalties, but he said the changes should reflect the volatility of commodity prices, higher costs and the risks and returns of capital investments.

"A royalty system can be developed that achieves Alberta's objectives without so severely damaging the province's future," Eresman said.
With files from Canadian Press

2R · Post by 2R » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:33 pm

They have no money for Doctors , health care or day care .Now we know one of the reasons why .

As the old Chinese proverb says "Behind every great fortune ,great crime"

How many CF-18's would that money have bought ???
Or how many hip replacements ???
Or trained how many Doctors Nurses Teachers ???

Or Forensic Accountants ???

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:50 pm

2R wrote:
As the old Chinese proverb says "Behind every great fortune ,great crime"

That's great!

I think it must be part of the Oath when Politicians take office....

stl

2R · Post by 2R » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:56 pm

That saying pre-dates the false religion of socialism in China

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:18 am

Hey 2R,

You notice there's no responses on this one from the AB crew??? Lol.

stl

2R · Post by 2R » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:26 am

They are too busy with banjo practice

It is difficult for most people to comes to terms with the fact that their Prophet is a false one and only in politics for their own profit and not to serve the public.How many municipal politicians take the bus to city hall and three years later drive away in a nice Caddy.
Look how long it took the liberals to come to terms with the corruption in their party .It will take a while before the incompetance of the drunken baffoon comes out .He played the nice drunk.Just like that strange happy uncle that is always smiling .How could anyone not like that show. But it makes me wonder how much does his friends have stashed for him in a turks and caicos account .
There will be a rush to get the next election in the fall before all the facts come out on ralphers and his cronnies .If they wait to long it could ruin the right wing in Canada ever to hold power again.Never mind a minority governmnent we could end up with a protest vote of a green /ndp /shirt lifter coalition .I do hope i am wrong again

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:06 am

2R wrote:They have no money for Doctors , health care or day care .

I think they have lots of money for health care. Last I heard Alberta puts more money into health care then any other province.

goates · Post by **goates** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:32 am

Most, if not all, of the oil companies have said they're willing to change the royalties, just not the way the royalty review recommends. It's recommendations like the no grandfathering clause and changing the rules after they've done their planning (and spent millions buying the mineral rights) that are the most troubling. Not to mention the recommendation to review and change the royalties yearly if needed. The oil companies and their investors like having a stable set of rules to play by. If you're going to go changing the rules that affect decade long projects, people are going to think twice about even starting them.

Ralph was no saint, but the opposition didn't exactly provide any competition either. And by competition, I mean a leader worth voting for.

As for health care spending, Alberta does spend more per capita than all other provinces.

CIHI's report provides a provincial breakdown of total health care spending per person. In 2006, public and private health care spending in Alberta is expected to reach $4,924 per person, followed by Manitoba ($4,901) and Ontario ($4,760). The lowest per person expenditures are expected for Quebec ($3,976), followed by Prince Edward Island ($4,225) and Newfoundland and Labrador ($4,402). The spending gap between the provinces with the highest and lowest per-capita spending is projected to be 24% in 2006.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/58214.php

They are too busy with banjo practice

Sounds like someone ran out of their weed supply...

2R · Post by 2R » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:01 am

You would never run out of weed in this town if that is what you want .
There are grow ops all around with thousands of plants in them and they are not that heavily guarded

I am not into self medication as i have seen how crazy it makes people .So crazy they do not even think they are crazy

Besides i am to scared to try it as i might like it

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:04 am

What's not to like??? Lol

Can't put beer in a Brownie....

stl

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:32 pm

sky's the limit wrote:Hey 2R,

You notice there's no responses on this one from the AB crew??? Lol.

stl

I am shocked and dismayed.

You mean all those times over the years when I said Ralph was incompetent and was cowtowing to the Oil companies I was right? It should be interesting to see how many people now join me in my "anybody but the Conservatives" protest vote. Actually I've been that lonely voice of reason for so long I'll get claustrophobic when everybody jumps on the bandwagon.

2R · Post by 2R » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:37 pm

The front page of a daily newspaper in one of the richest cities in one of the richest countries has a picture of a mother unable to get a family Doctor for her children .Well done Ralph you deserve all the credit for that one .
The numbers are numbing .How could they allow such a big give away of BILLIONS ???

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:56 pm

2R wrote:The front page of a daily newspaper in one of the richest cities in one of the richest countries has a picture of a mother unable to get a family Doctor for her children .Well done Ralph you deserve all the credit for that one .
The numbers are numbing .How could they allow such a big give away of BILLIONS ???

another billion wouldn't solve that problem. you will always be able to find someone to put on the front page of a paper. Read the paper here and it's all about the people who leave this province for Alberta because they can get treatment within a week as opposed to months here.

goates · Post by **goates** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:37 pm

How could they allow such a big give away of BILLIONS ???

Well, they did give away $400 to everyone in the province that totaled to something like $1.4 billion. That money could have been far better spent elsewhere or invested into the Heritage Fund. Lack of doctors and hospitals has little to do with a lack of money, and a lot to do with a lack of planning.

fogghorn · Post by **fogghorn** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:33 am

shitdisturber wrote:
sky's the limit wrote:Hey 2R,

You notice there's no responses on this one from the AB crew??? Lol.

stl
I am shocked and dismayed. You mean all those times over the years when I said Ralph was incompetent and was cowtowing to the Oil companies I was right? It should be interesting to see how many people now join me in my "anybody but the Conservatives" protest vote. Actually I've been that lonely voice of reason for so long I'll get claustrophobic when everybody jumps on the bandwagon.

That would apply to fed cons. as well. Harper is getting a free ride and it is getting old fast. Multiply Ralphies myopic distorted corporations first policies by 10 and you get the outcome of a continued Harper govt. They should all go back to their true AB calling (yeah, I know - harper is not from ab - but the mentality is) and fav pastime, banjo strumming.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:04 am

sky's the limit wrote:Hey 2R,

You notice there's no responses on this one from the AB crew??? Lol.

stl

I'm in Alberta and I posted the same article in the Encana thread. It is not a surprise... government, big business, politicians, money... is there any other way this could possibly go?

Mostly Harmless · Post by **Mostly Harmless** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:36 pm

How many CF-18's would that money have bought ???

Alberta has F-18's??!! Cool. If only I had known that earlier... perhaps we could use them to blow the ignorance/arrogance/greed out of central Canada. We could call it... Operation Enduring Freedom and tell the world it is to get rid of terrorists... I mean free the people of Ontario and Quebec... I mean to bring democracy to central Canada. You know democracy right? Where everyone in the country is EQUALLY represented in the government.

I was never a Ralph fan but, some of you need to learn a few things about how the government in this country is set up, how it works and which level of government owns/pays for what. I also think many of you need to learn a little about history. Where was cental Canada with all thier money and help when we were in a depression caused by, you guessed it, central Canada and the NEP. I didn't see the manufacturing heartland offering to help out in a time of crisis... for that matter, Alberta has NEVER recieved one dollar in transfer payments. Alberta has always paid into the transfer system. If you are jelous then the least you can do is become somewhat educated about what you are mad/upset about.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:17 pm

Having lived in Alberta, and almost marrying into the Ranching community(who are the REAL Albertans, not the city going transplants) there, I can claim a reasonable level of education on the subject.

What never ceases to amaze me is, that wherever I've lived, in Canada or elsewhere, EVERYONE is fighting for, and bitching about the same things.... The only people displaying arrogance and ignorance are Albertans themselves. You've done such a great job managing your own affairs, perhaps you could turn to exporting advice???

Boo Hoo, you've never received a Transfer payment, well that's part of contributing to what is generally a great country to be in. As for representation, you think that the vast majority of the Canadian population and earning power in "Central Canada" should be made to listen to a dramatically lower base out West, or East for that matter? I've been West and North most of the last 20yrs, but let's be realistic for a minute here, the money, and the people, live in Ontario and Quebec. Get your head around it.

It's about time you people start putting as much energy into making CANADA better as you do trying to tear it apart.

stl

2R · Post by 2R » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:05 pm

STL i will be forced to stoop to insulting behavior as i am finding myself (often wrong) agreeing with what you are saying .And i cannot agree with sensible rational thought it goes against my nature

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:26 pm

2R wrote:STL i will be forced to stoop to insulting behavior as i am finding myself (often wrong) agreeing with what you are saying .And i cannot agree with sensible rational thought it goes against my nature

Ah come on, you know you like it. But don't feel bad, according to my wife, I'm never wrong....

But seriously, this introverted bullshit coming from mainly Alberta, and to a lesser extent B.C., is really starting to piss me off. "It's all about me" should be on the AB license plates. I wish people would grow up and see that we're building on something most of the planet envies, and that compromise, give and take, and humility are part of it. You want to fight for egocentric beliefs? Go to any civil-war ridden country on the evening news, plenty to go around.

Anyway, if you find yourself agreeing with me too much, I'm sure my benefits could be extended to you for therapy.....Lol.

Bottoms up,

stl

fogghorn · Post by **fogghorn** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:08 pm

I hate to characterize, but if ever a group of people had a monopoly on myopic, self-centered, holier than thou, self righteous tendencies, it's Albertans. I came from the place, I won't go back. And the worst boors I have seen are from Clagary, that bunch is a real piece of work, U.S. wannabee clones, who may claim knowledge and the ability to earn 6 figure salaries and hang out at Lake Lousy with their designer snow suits, but sadly lack collectively in any degree of being wise in any way or form. Call it sour grapes, it is no loss on my part.

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:50 pm

Ah, you ran into the "elite" Albertans? I hate to say this but many of them are from BC or Ontario. They moved with their head offices and have "put on airs" since they arrived. Drove the price of homes up ten fold and most have a summer house in Invermere whose garage/boat dock is bigger than my own home!

I don't mind seeing my tax dollars helping a family in Newfoundland, but sometimes lately I wish they would move here so I don't have to work six days a week, I put in so much overtime this year....did we have a summer? How was it?

Ralph got rid of our deficit, it hurt in the early 90's but paid off really well in the long run.

Check Pilot · Post by **Check Pilot** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:20 pm

Foggggghorn, it's good that you are gone.

Don't bother coming back here to Alberta. It's lefty's like you that do well in other parts of the country like the communists in Manitoba or the self centered enviro-whacko idiots from Toronto. Stay away from us out here. I'm proving your point though aren't I?.

Yep, we are a bunch of money grubbing independent ego-centrists. Most of us are happy about that too. Because we make money here. Because we have initiative. Because we are risk takers. -- And because the f##king government isn't in our face all the time. Obviously unlike where you are now.

Do you feel good that the government gets to do the thinking for you? Are you relieved of responsibility for your decisions when you know that the government can do it for you? Do you feel good knowing you don't have to think for yourself anymore.

Or does that hurt you somehow? What a shame you are hurting like that!
It's too bad that Alberta treated you so badly. It's too bad that you didn't have the balls or brains to make it on your own.

Now that you are out of Alberta, please stay out. We don't need you here with your attitude. Please stay somewhere where the government will take care of you from cradle to grave. You'll be much happier when you get to pay for all the welfare for folks that won't work.

It won't happen here in Alberta.

In Alberta you can make your own life by thinking for yourself and not having the "state" do the thinking for you. - I know you can't understand that, but---

Hope you are happier in whatever socialist part of the world you now live in. -- You need to be there because the government can tell you how to think about things. (I call that brain dead- but what do I know).

Best of luck there Bunky. Stay where you're happy and hopefully you'll get to Nirvana by paying all those taxes too.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:38 am

Check Pilot wrote:

Now that you are out of Alberta, please stay out. We don't need you here with your attitude. Please stay somewhere where the government will take care of you from cradle to grave. You'll be much happier when you get to pay for all the welfare for folks that won't work.

It won't happen here in Alberta.

In Alberta you can make your own life by thinking for yourself and not having the "state" do the thinking for you. - I know you can't understand that, but---

Hope you are happier in whatever socialist part of the world you now live in. -- You need to be there because the government can tell you how to think about things. (I call that brain dead- but what do I know).

I see you've bought into the myth big time.... How's the Kool-Aid? It's precisely attitudes like yours that allow Big Oil and Gov't to take advantage of you. If they tell it's great long enough, you'll start believing it. Any idiot can save money when they don't spend it, even me. The role of Gov't goes far beyond "getting in your face," but you seem to be one of those people who harp on the Welfare State, but fail miserably in realizing there are many areas where people DO need help and support. Maybe if you have a child with a disability you'll start to see, but I'm not holding out hope.... You all 'make it on your own,' I forgot.

Enjoy your roads this winter....

stl

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:54 am

"Canada is a country that works in practise but doesn't work in theory."

I think the single worst thing about Canadian society is the attitude of entitlement - like Sky said, "Its all about me." That's the single reason that Canada is still limping along in the third world. Until we collectively abandon that attitude and strive for something greater than new Hummers or Chelsea Tractors, we will continue to noodle along with no purpose.

Sky, you said something about "almost marrying into ranching..." Why did ewe change your mind?