So I had an application in with Air Canada Technical Services a couple years ago on their online site, and last week the automated system sent me an email about a job opening. It is an "Aircraft Maintenance Technician - Cat 1" position. So for the hell of it I updated my resume and applied. Now this week I get a message from them to come in for an interview. This now forces me to actually think about this, and I have a few concerns I'm hoping some of you guys out there can help me with.
So here is what I'm thinking...
1. The job is in a city I would really like to live in, far more desirable than where I am now.
2. The job will mean working on the big transport category aircraft I have always wanted to work on.
3. What about all these guys that seem to get laid off all the time? I'm thinking Vancouver's layoffs as well as in Winnipeg I know of a couple guys who have been laid off in the last few months. Don't all these people get called back first? Does this mean no one wanted this job and so now they will hire outside the company?
4. This leads me to my next question. If no one wanted this "CAT 1" position, does that mean it's not a very good job? What in the hell does "CAT 1" mean? What would I expect to be doing at this job?
5. While I don't especially like where I am currently working, location wise, the job is very good, pays well and is about as secure of a job anyone could ask for. At ACTS I would definitely not feel as secure as I do right now. Has anything changed there in terms of job security. Obviously I'd be right at the very bottom seniority wise and would be one of the first to be laid off. I definitely don't want to take a job where I can be laid off at any minute at the drop of a hat.
6. Lastly, what's the pay for a guy in a "CAT 1" position who hasn't even been licensed for a full year yet?
Of course I may not even be offered this position anyway, even if I did go for the interview. I'm wondering if I'd be wasting my time going, knowing the job I have now is fine except the location. So any AC guys or perhaps former AC guys wanna fill me in? Thanks.
ACTS
Moderators: Sulako, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia
My first impulse was to tell you to RUN far and fast! On reflection, if you want to spend virtually every day waiting for the lay-off letter, then by all means, sign on. Depending on location, the work can be very much production line, same old same old day in, day out etc.
The future is very uncertain, at nearly every base for ACTS. Bear in mind, Toronto is an ACM (Air Canada Mtce) ie line maintenance, vs ACTS (Air Canada Technical Services) which is overhaul and mod programs etc AKA heavy mtce, and is currently located in YWG, YUL, YVR. There are ACM components at several bases as well; YEG, YYC, YWG, YVR, YUL,and others
Also, bear in mind the big investment ACTS made in El Salvador, that will play a huge part in the future of those working at ACTS!
I must, however, qualify the above by admitting that I never worked in ACTS as it now exists. I had the good fortune (or misfortune, depending on how you look at it) to have worked through about six mergers and takeovers before arriving at Air Canada, and spent nearly all my career (Oct 1961 to July 2007) in line and field ( read "the bush") maintenance.
The best of all worlds.
The future is very uncertain, at nearly every base for ACTS. Bear in mind, Toronto is an ACM (Air Canada Mtce) ie line maintenance, vs ACTS (Air Canada Technical Services) which is overhaul and mod programs etc AKA heavy mtce, and is currently located in YWG, YUL, YVR. There are ACM components at several bases as well; YEG, YYC, YWG, YVR, YUL,and others
Also, bear in mind the big investment ACTS made in El Salvador, that will play a huge part in the future of those working at ACTS!
I must, however, qualify the above by admitting that I never worked in ACTS as it now exists. I had the good fortune (or misfortune, depending on how you look at it) to have worked through about six mergers and takeovers before arriving at Air Canada, and spent nearly all my career (Oct 1961 to July 2007) in line and field ( read "the bush") maintenance.
The best of all worlds.
If you don't know,ASK!
"Do or do not..there is no try"
"Do or do not..there is no try"
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ourkid2000
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:11 pm
I have no idea why anyone would want to work for Air Canada these days. It's a place I would recommend every AME to stay away from.
It all comes down to this and it's simple questions you have to ask yourself.........are you prepared to accept a fairlylow wage (low 20's/hr), in a super expensive city like Montreal or Toronto, with absolutely NO job security? (and this is no understatement because in reality, working for Air Canada as an AME is probably the least secure job in Canada). You could easily make more money working as a Bus mechanic. The moral at AC is pitiful and eventually all the negative talk begins to wear you down.
Finally, look into the Aeroman story (In El Salvador). AC recently bought Aeroman who do tons of outsourcing heavy overhaul work for US carriers for penny's compared to the North American wages. AC has said to the AME's at AC that they will not outsource their acft to them.........likely? Yeah right.
The benefits? Well you get passes.........however these are almost worthless as any AC employee will tell you because you pretty much cannot use them unless there are few people traveling. Forget using them on any long weekend or holiday, etc. No buddy passes anymore (unless you travel with them). Also, with the sale of Air Canada's maintenance division a few months ago, it's no longer tied directly to AC so who is to say that they will allow you to have travel benefits anymore?
AC's medical plan is decent but nothing special. The pension is something that AC has been trying to mess with big time. You can also get your AME license working at AC.
For me, it's just not worth it.........it's simple.
It all comes down to this and it's simple questions you have to ask yourself.........are you prepared to accept a fairlylow wage (low 20's/hr), in a super expensive city like Montreal or Toronto, with absolutely NO job security? (and this is no understatement because in reality, working for Air Canada as an AME is probably the least secure job in Canada). You could easily make more money working as a Bus mechanic. The moral at AC is pitiful and eventually all the negative talk begins to wear you down.
Finally, look into the Aeroman story (In El Salvador). AC recently bought Aeroman who do tons of outsourcing heavy overhaul work for US carriers for penny's compared to the North American wages. AC has said to the AME's at AC that they will not outsource their acft to them.........likely? Yeah right.
The benefits? Well you get passes.........however these are almost worthless as any AC employee will tell you because you pretty much cannot use them unless there are few people traveling. Forget using them on any long weekend or holiday, etc. No buddy passes anymore (unless you travel with them). Also, with the sale of Air Canada's maintenance division a few months ago, it's no longer tied directly to AC so who is to say that they will allow you to have travel benefits anymore?
AC's medical plan is decent but nothing special. The pension is something that AC has been trying to mess with big time. You can also get your AME license working at AC.
For me, it's just not worth it.........it's simple.
By the way, a "cat 01" is just the classification assigned to an AME M2 in the Collective Agreement. As for pay, you would be licenced coming into the company, so you would get nearly top rate (about $30/hr). Yes, all the laid-off guys have been offered these positions, and very few will take them. People have easily found other (better) jobs, and don't trust ACTS enough to come back. The jobs they are hiring for in Vancouver and Winnipeg will probably only last until spring of 2008 or so. (my opinion.)
We are currently experiencing the biggest boom in aviation this country has ever seen. Everybody, but everybody is looking to hire. If you dislike the place you're at, look around some more! Now is the time to move!
As far as ACTS goes, I recommend you go to the interview and ask lots of questions. Won't cost you anything. What do you have to lose?
Have you tried Westjet?
We are currently experiencing the biggest boom in aviation this country has ever seen. Everybody, but everybody is looking to hire. If you dislike the place you're at, look around some more! Now is the time to move!
As far as ACTS goes, I recommend you go to the interview and ask lots of questions. Won't cost you anything. What do you have to lose?
Have you tried Westjet?
I'm thinking the same thing, what have I got to lose? I'll basically tell them, I'd be foolish to take a position that I can't be gauranteed beyond a few months.conehead wrote:By the way, a "cat 01" is just the classification assigned to an AME M2 in the Collective Agreement. As for pay, you would be licenced coming into the company, so you would get nearly top rate (about $30/hr). Yes, all the laid-off guys have been offered these positions, and very few will take them. People have easily found other (better) jobs, and don't trust ACTS enough to come back. The jobs they are hiring for in Vancouver and Winnipeg will probably only last until spring of 2008 or so. (my opinion.)
We are currently experiencing the biggest boom in aviation this country has ever seen. Everybody, but everybody is looking to hire. If you dislike the place you're at, look around some more! Now is the time to move!
As far as ACTS goes, I recommend you go to the interview and ask lots of questions. Won't cost you anything. What do you have to lose?
Have you tried Westjet?
As far as Westjet, I would jump at an opportunity to work for them. However I rarely see job opportunities come up for AME M2 for anywhere but YYZ, using their online hiring centre anyway.
Hi speedtape.
I am one of the 800 or so that they laid off in Vancouver back in June. I was a CAT19 which is a structures mechanic. I worked there for 11 years. I was known as an LAT4 which means Licenced Aircraft Technician 4. That's the top rate which was about $32/hr. The CAT1s would be the same.
If they are hiring CAT1s off the street, that could mean one of two things. Either none of the CAT1s had that particular base listed as an alternate recall point or they all refused the recall for that vacancy.
If you are happy where you are right now and feel you have a pretty secure job...I would suggest that you stay there.
If you want to know anyhthing else about ACTS, I will try and answer the best I can.
EDIT: Hmmm. I just checked out Air Canada's website. Seems they have a posting for temporary CAT19s in Vancouver. Don't understand why they would have that on their website with so many people that they could recall for the positions. I wonder if I will get a recall?
I am one of the 800 or so that they laid off in Vancouver back in June. I was a CAT19 which is a structures mechanic. I worked there for 11 years. I was known as an LAT4 which means Licenced Aircraft Technician 4. That's the top rate which was about $32/hr. The CAT1s would be the same.
If they are hiring CAT1s off the street, that could mean one of two things. Either none of the CAT1s had that particular base listed as an alternate recall point or they all refused the recall for that vacancy.
If you are happy where you are right now and feel you have a pretty secure job...I would suggest that you stay there.
If you want to know anyhthing else about ACTS, I will try and answer the best I can.
EDIT: Hmmm. I just checked out Air Canada's website. Seems they have a posting for temporary CAT19s in Vancouver. Don't understand why they would have that on their website with so many people that they could recall for the positions. I wonder if I will get a recall?
I suggest you contact the Union. You guys are getting shafted! It is illegal, and the Arbitrator should quickly fix this!Cat19 wrote:Hmmm. I just checked out Air Canada's website. Seems they have a posting for temporary CAT19s in Vancouver. Don't understand why they would have that on their website with so many people that they could recall for the positions. I wonder if I will get a recall?
Good day speedtape,
These recalls are for ACTS's extreme makeover mods. Basically the CEO at AC has promised the public that video on demand would be installed on most aircraft by Dec 2007 (not sure on the date...maybe someone ca correct me).They are so far behind that they will not meet their deadline.
The recall will give you part time employment but who knows.... it might turn into full time work at some point. Montreal has no cat 01 technicians on layoff, Winnipeg and Vancouver are the bases that were heavily affected... the other bases are doing pretty good. ACTS in YUL has just started an Embraer line where they do the C checks so that's good news... Coming to AC will give you a seniority date if you manage to last more then 6 months and that seniority date gives you recall rights for 7 years...
Just keep in mind that the job might not last more then 6 months.It's a decent job but is certainly isn't a stable one.
good luck
Eric
These recalls are for ACTS's extreme makeover mods. Basically the CEO at AC has promised the public that video on demand would be installed on most aircraft by Dec 2007 (not sure on the date...maybe someone ca correct me).They are so far behind that they will not meet their deadline.
The recall will give you part time employment but who knows.... it might turn into full time work at some point. Montreal has no cat 01 technicians on layoff, Winnipeg and Vancouver are the bases that were heavily affected... the other bases are doing pretty good. ACTS in YUL has just started an Embraer line where they do the C checks so that's good news... Coming to AC will give you a seniority date if you manage to last more then 6 months and that seniority date gives you recall rights for 7 years...
Just keep in mind that the job might not last more then 6 months.It's a decent job but is certainly isn't a stable one.
good luck
Eric
Hey guys,
Just a little update. Based on the replies in this thread as well as my own gut instinct I decided not to go to the interview after all. You guys all kind of reaffirmed what I was mostly worried about, and made me realize no matter what they told me at that interview I wouldn't accept the position if offered. They would have to guarantee me employment for longer than a few months (like 2 years at least!), and it doesn't sound like that is something the ACTS HR department is in the habit of doing! I'm under no delusions about my place in the aviation world at this point in time; I am relatively new to this trade and there is still lots to learn with my current employer. I might have a license, but it doesn't mean much until there are years and years of experience to back it up! So in the mean time I will continue to gain experience, and maybe a few years down the road ACTS will turn into a more attractive option. Again, thanks for all the input... keep it coming guys, I'm sure I'm not the only one reading this thread with great interest
Just a little update. Based on the replies in this thread as well as my own gut instinct I decided not to go to the interview after all. You guys all kind of reaffirmed what I was mostly worried about, and made me realize no matter what they told me at that interview I wouldn't accept the position if offered. They would have to guarantee me employment for longer than a few months (like 2 years at least!), and it doesn't sound like that is something the ACTS HR department is in the habit of doing! I'm under no delusions about my place in the aviation world at this point in time; I am relatively new to this trade and there is still lots to learn with my current employer. I might have a license, but it doesn't mean much until there are years and years of experience to back it up! So in the mean time I will continue to gain experience, and maybe a few years down the road ACTS will turn into a more attractive option. Again, thanks for all the input... keep it coming guys, I'm sure I'm not the only one reading this thread with great interest
Good luck to you speedtape.
I think you should have gone to the interview anyway just to see what they had to say. It's hard to say what they would have offered you as far as the length of employment.
All I can say is...ACTS was a great place to work. Regardless of what you may have heard, the working conditions in Vancouver were second to none. I was there for 11 years and I honostly can't think of anything really bad to say about the place. You never had to bust your ass, you could pretty much take a break anytime you wanted. Go for a walk outside, go talk with your buddies etc etc. I'm not saying that you could just fk the dog all day...although many people did...but is was a very relaxed work environment. Maybe too relaxed.
You had many different shift options and days off to choose from, the pay was great, you got flight benifits, the majority of the guys were great to work with. What more can I say?
It is normal for people that have worked at one place for a long time to have the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome so there was some people that did complain alot but you're going to get that no matter where you work. I would bet that anyone who has found work at another AMO is starting to realise how good they had it at ACTS. If they haven't yet, that's only because everything is new and exciting but after a year or two, I'm sure they will be fondly remembering their time at ACTS. We were on the side of the fence with the nice green grass.
I truly think that a person would have a tough time finding another AMO where they could have it as good as it was at ACTS and I think that if they started doing a mass recall for whatever reason...99.9% of the guys would go back. I know I would.
I think you should have gone to the interview anyway just to see what they had to say. It's hard to say what they would have offered you as far as the length of employment.
All I can say is...ACTS was a great place to work. Regardless of what you may have heard, the working conditions in Vancouver were second to none. I was there for 11 years and I honostly can't think of anything really bad to say about the place. You never had to bust your ass, you could pretty much take a break anytime you wanted. Go for a walk outside, go talk with your buddies etc etc. I'm not saying that you could just fk the dog all day...although many people did...but is was a very relaxed work environment. Maybe too relaxed.
You had many different shift options and days off to choose from, the pay was great, you got flight benifits, the majority of the guys were great to work with. What more can I say?
It is normal for people that have worked at one place for a long time to have the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome so there was some people that did complain alot but you're going to get that no matter where you work. I would bet that anyone who has found work at another AMO is starting to realise how good they had it at ACTS. If they haven't yet, that's only because everything is new and exciting but after a year or two, I'm sure they will be fondly remembering their time at ACTS. We were on the side of the fence with the nice green grass.
I truly think that a person would have a tough time finding another AMO where they could have it as good as it was at ACTS and I think that if they started doing a mass recall for whatever reason...99.9% of the guys would go back. I know I would.
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ourkid2000
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:11 pm
AC is a great place to work no doubt..........I was a ramp rat for years there. Some of my friends work for ACTS and I myself turned down a job there as a Cat 38.
The problem with that place is job security........if it wasn't for that, it would be a perfectly fine place to work.
To work for AC these days is to make sacrifices i'm not willing to make for twenty-odd bucks an hour.
The problem with that place is job security........if it wasn't for that, it would be a perfectly fine place to work.
To work for AC these days is to make sacrifices i'm not willing to make for twenty-odd bucks an hour.
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ourkid2000
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:11 pm
Yeah, the threat of the layoff is definitely always there no matter who you work for.........but more so at Air Canada.
No one does the MASS layoffs like AC and no one has as little power within the company as the AC mechs. The AC mechs have that company by the balls and they never stand up for themselves unlike the CAW and CUPE members of AC. Your own union is run by ramp rats.......trust me, I know all about the IAMAW at AC.
Also, no other AMO I know of has purchased a hugely successful foreign AMO like Aeroman.
AC claims they won't send their acft there.........I don't buy it for a second. Especially with our dollar the way it is.
No one does the MASS layoffs like AC and no one has as little power within the company as the AC mechs. The AC mechs have that company by the balls and they never stand up for themselves unlike the CAW and CUPE members of AC. Your own union is run by ramp rats.......trust me, I know all about the IAMAW at AC.
Also, no other AMO I know of has purchased a hugely successful foreign AMO like Aeroman.
AC claims they won't send their acft there.........I don't buy it for a second. Especially with our dollar the way it is.
You guys see the posting in the Job Ads for Chapco?
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=35451
They are advertising 18 permanent positions for YWG? From their website I'm guessing they are contracting people to ACTS. I wonder if this is because AC is having trouble recruiting AME's? Anyone have any further details about this company and just how "permanent" these positions would be?
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=35451
They are advertising 18 permanent positions for YWG? From their website I'm guessing they are contracting people to ACTS. I wonder if this is because AC is having trouble recruiting AME's? Anyone have any further details about this company and just how "permanent" these positions would be?
This is very strange.
AC has an add on their website for temp sheet metal, avionics and mechanics positions in Vancouver and now this company is looking for contract workers ( about 8 months) also for Vancouver. Those contract positions must be for ACTS...who else does work on Boeing and Airbus planes in Vancouver?
I don't see how they can hire people from outside the company to work at ACTS when there is approx. 800 guys laid-off.
Not sure what is going on here!
AC has an add on their website for temp sheet metal, avionics and mechanics positions in Vancouver and now this company is looking for contract workers ( about 8 months) also for Vancouver. Those contract positions must be for ACTS...who else does work on Boeing and Airbus planes in Vancouver?
I don't see how they can hire people from outside the company to work at ACTS when there is approx. 800 guys laid-off.
Not sure what is going on here!
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ourkid2000
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:11 pm
That is strange.....AC seems to be doin everything in their power to mess with you guys.
However, what are the AC techs gonna do about it? Nothin, that's what......they never do.
With what you guys have been through over the past few years, I simply cannot believe you haven't walked out.
However, what are the AC techs gonna do about it? Nothin, that's what......they never do.
With what you guys have been through over the past few years, I simply cannot believe you haven't walked out.
