Borek Sucks!

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:03 pm

Why would you even want to work for peanuts in aviation if you look in the mirror and see John Holmes?

Because, Cat, if you look closely, his name is spelt with small letters!

northbound206 · Post by **northbound206** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:54 pm

borek guys get 18/day for groceries??? on top of their base + whatever daily per diem? holy smokes that even more than I originally thought! Sign me up, I can finally shop till i drop at the northern.... speaking of which, MmmMm northern pizza

GroundSpeed · Post by **GroundSpeed** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:14 pm

[quote="northbound206"]borek guys get 18/day for groceries??? on top of their base + whatever daily per diem? holy smokes that even more than I originally thought! Sign me up, I can finally shop till i drop at the northern.... speaking of which, MmmMm northern pizza

[/quote]

Get a grip just because it's better money then you make now dosen't mean it's a great job. You are the perfect mentality for Jazz you should send in a resume asap.

Worked for a few companys good and bad high pay and low pay but I have to say Borek was the worst decision of my aviation career.

But hey go give it a shot you will see your self.

Mad Flying Ace · Post by **Mad Flying Ace** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:54 pm

JohnHolmes and Groundspeed.

Sounds to me like you don't work for Borek anymore. I wonder why?

I'd certainly like to hear both sides of the story - you 2 sure sound like things didnt work out too well.

I've been at Borek now for over seven years - started off as a 250hr wonder and 5000hrs later am still living the dream - working half the year and living the other half in paradise.

Borek is what you make of it - you work hard and do a good job, it gets recognized and you can do very well for yerself.

On the other hand, you bitch and complain and don't do a good job, you get your just deserts.

Groundspeed - you worked over 250 days last year including an Antarctic tour, and only made $28 000 as an FO? Something does not compute - and if that's all you made, then its yer fault - you should have said something earlier - or perhaps you did and it wasn't very nice and so . . .

Borek may not be the end all, be all - but again, it's what you make of it. And from what I gather, there are alot worse places you could be at.

Fly Safe!

Mad Flying Ace

HighBypass · Post by **HighBypass** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:38 pm

Ya ive heard a lot of people bitch about borek, espcially how you randomly get called to stay in rankin or some place longer then they origonally said, and ive deffinetly heard how poor the cojo pay is, and most of the guys i know who went there as co-jos went there with 1000hrs + Current PPC, which is some experience at least. With that time at least your reasonably useful. Sure pay isn't everything, but its one more agrivation when your unexpectanly overnighting in CYYH and the wind is howelling and your pee freezes in 5 mins, and you are putting on the engine tents, and you dont know the taxi cab number, the CARS guy is gone, and theres probably a hungry polar bear around. YEA! Good times. Its times like those that you think: " hey at least im getting paid well and my boss values me and appreciates my work". If you dont feel that, you probably wont last long at that company.

If your happy making under $30K as an experienced FO, then great! Im sure youll love making $37K at Jazz! Personally I like making more then that, thats why I dont work at Borek. I probably love the flying where i am now as much as if i was at borek, so thats not really something that will make me leave.

I just think Groundspeed has a bad attitude in general. Hopefully we meet in the store house some night and we can duke it out.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:05 pm

Funny every time I tell people I flew in YFB they say they wish they'd been there. Most non flying Canadians say they would love to see Baffin island. All I can say is try it for a week in january and you'll have had enough.

Seriously the problem with KBA isn't the money, nobody pays FO's well. The problem is the attitude. Do you remember what aviation was like when you sat in the right seat of an otter for 10 years before an upgrade? No I don't either, but there are a lot of drivers at KBA who do. That attitude is still pervasive throughout the company.

It's a corporate mentality from the top down that will never ever change because it is learned behavior. So many people there have been treated with disrespect for so long that they think it's normal and the cycle perpetuates itself.

Everything at KBA is "do this or your fired" "do that or your fired", I don't care if you say please or thank you, but KBA has a corporate mentality that nobody is worth shit. Go visit the slums of white row, or Alder St right now and there's pilots sitting around who hate their jobs and are bitching about it as we speak.

Maybe KBA was good for you, and I certainly gained a tremendous amount of good experience in my short time there. But I would never ever go back. Not for 10 Grand a year more than I'm making right now that's for sure. And that's exactly what the're advertising on the job board.

If you're there and you like it, great. If you're there and you hate it everybody else is hiring so what are you waiting for?

Not everybody there are bad, that's not what I am saying. I worked with JC, KAG, and many others are good people, but the way the company is run made it very tough for me to be happy long term.

Mad Flying Ace · Post by **Mad Flying Ace** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:15 pm

YOU DO REALIZE GUYS THAT IN MOST CASES YOUR ONLY WORKING HALF THE YEAR at Borek.

Show me a job that works you half the year and pays you as well - even for a copilot - its not that bad.

The folks out there making more as a "co-joe" i bet work more than half the year. So - same difference.

Fly Safe

MadFlyingAce

PS - Co-Joe (AKA Douche Bag) - there's probably a reason yer where you are and not at KBAL anymore - and you should watch what you say about attitude - yer reputation preceeds you.

WWWWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeee

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:37 pm

Mad Flying Ace wrote:YOU DO REALIZE GUYS THAT IN MOST CASES YOUR ONLY WORKING HALF THE YEAR at Borek.

Explain to me how 3 weeks on followed by 3 weeks on call equates to working half the year?

BTW I never said I have a good attitude, when I worked there my attitude hit an all time low. KBA's not for everyone and it certainly wasn't for me.

bohica · Post by **bohica** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:45 pm

MFA, I agreee with you all the way.

Co-joe, seriously thats all you ever amounted to be and borek is lucky to be rid of you. Seriously I KNOW

I worked there briefly and had a blast. I worked in other places similar to borek and it was slightly better treatment but less pay, so take the pay with the shiat and the shiat with the pay. Anyhow, its a means to an end and a great place to work near the top if you stick it out.

My 2 cents

here it comes again

MrWings · Post by **MrWings** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:24 pm

This is a great thread for anyone wanting to get into the aviation business.

wxguy · Post by **wxguy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:38 pm

MrWings wrote:This is a great thread for anyone wanting to get into the aviation business.

...or for anyone who dreams of flying for Borek.

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:50 pm

I haven't heard so much talk about "attitude" since high school.

Also, just because someone disagrees with you, accusing them of having a "bad attitude" is probably the lowest form of counter-argument out there. But unfortunately personal attacks like that can be effective, even though they lack substance.

float ball · Post by **float ball** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:04 pm

Bottom line - Borek is not for everybody. If you are not happy at Borek or did not enjoy your time there suck it up, look for a new job, and quit your friggin' whining. Nobody is forcing you to work there. Borek has pros and cons like any other company and depending on what you are looking for you may see more of the pros or more of the cons. Personally I am content at Borek and I know alot of other guys (both senior captains and low time FO's) who are also quite happy.

If you are so sure there are better companies out there then feel free to go to work for one of them. Your attitude and complaining will not be missed at Borek.

johnholmes · Post by **johnholmes** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:01 am

I persoanlly do not work at Borek anymore. I have found a place to work where I get treated with respect and earn a wage that alows me to afford food not to mention a descent schedule. I can say that it bothers me though how many people I have spoken with since my time at Borek that would pretty much put on their knee pads or do anyhthing to get on with Borek. I know alot of these people would be dissapointed if they got hired. Co-joe summed things up pretty well. Maybe some of you guys on here don't mind being treated like a piece of shit but I personally do. How many poeple that work at borek acutally go a full year with 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off without any interuptions. Proabably no one. I like everyone else am entitlted to my personal opinion and wanted to share it. If you don' believe or don't want to believe a word I am saying then go and find out for yourself. It really don't matter shit to me. Go and find out for yourself and have fun!

Zy · Post by Zy » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:19 am

I found out for myself, and I am having tons of fun with the company. It's all in what you make of it. You keep a good attitude and don't let people push you around, and, what's not to love? If you like this kind of flying that is, not everyone likes the north.

jet a1 · Post by **jet a1** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:08 am

hey everyone. let me start by saying that i agree with what was said, borek is not for everyone. i however like it alot. nowhere is perfect but what i can say is this. i work on the twin otter side of things and for the most part i DO only work half the year, with no on call. when my tour is finished i get flown home. which by the way,CAN BE ANYWHERE in the country. right now i'm on 4 weeks off which gives me more than enough time to be with family and enjoy a very relaxed part-time job (not that it's needed, but i like to keep busy) most of my fellow borek people can claim to be at one time, the most northern and/or most southern person on the planet. personally, i just got back from a whicked trip to norway, greenland, and a ship frozen in the ice somewhere around 86 north. now granted there are some down sides but for me, the adventure, time off, and fun far exceed the negatives. from what i've seen, those who love borek are people who like a bit of adventure, don't mind hard work, and don't have to worry about putting up the gear. just my two cents.
jet.

TAWS · Post by **TAWS** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:48 pm

There is no company anywhere that is right for everyone. That said, it takes a really "special" person to start his very first post with a title like "Boerk Sucks". Methinks you should consider growing up? We really don't care what, or who, YOU, think sucks! I suspect Borek thinks you suck as well. Do you see them posting that fact?

Doc,

Are you for real? Just because the guy doesn't have many posts on the "God given Avcanada" doesn't mean he is not entitled to an opinion. Methinks you should consider growing up. After all it takes a "special" person to post the personal attack you just did.

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:50 pm

A) it would be a personal attack not a person attack.

Secondly he never said that an opinion was invalid because it was a first post but that only a jerk would open an account just to shite on a company.

TAWS · Post by **TAWS** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:56 pm

it would be a personal attack not a person attack.

Thanks...edited

[/quote]Secondly he never said that an opinion was invalid because it was a first post but that only a jerk would open an account just to shite on a company.

I don't disagree that it was a jerk thing to do, however from someone who's been around for awhile you would think he could have posted something more constructive instead of provoking him on.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:12 pm

And, I removed the post....because, ya know what? I just don't care.

TindiGuy · Post by **TindiGuy** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:01 pm

edited for content

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:52 pm

TindiGuy,

Where the heck are you working now?

HighBypass · Post by **HighBypass** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:04 pm

Hes probably working at Tindi, Rudder Bug. Most likely.

Seems like a shady character.

Ref Plus 10 · Post by **Ref Plus 10** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:09 pm

Hey there,
I personally think that after my year working on the ground support side of the operation, and having talked to many of the hundreds of pilots currenly employed by KBAL, almost all of them had something positive to say about the experience....the experience. Sure, money is not the greatest, but it's definately not the worst. Now part of the flight crew, I am having the time of my life, seeing things that many will never have the pleasure of enjoying. Another man's opinion. I just hope everyone out there can someday find the job that suits them perfectly...for those others, try not to drag everyone else down with you

Ref

Backcourse · Post by **Backcourse** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:26 pm

I think we may all lose sight of the big picture sometimes. I started flight training when I was 29, so I was well into my first career when I decided to get into this aviation gig. I was an auto mechanic for over 10 years prior to becoming a private pilot, then came the commercial training

.

I stood, laid and crawled underneath a lot of dripping, greasy machines for many years as an auto mechanic. Smashed my knuckles and the rest of my body. I worked for some great guys, and I worked for some real assholes. I worked for very, very low wages to start while I was apprenticing, and had to buy a lot of expensive tools that you could not at the time right off on your income taxes. All while you are getting paid near minimum wage for about 4 years.

Sound familiar??

I am a Captain at KBAL now, which is my second aviation company and if I had kept pulling wrenches I probably could be making the same money in that industry as I am now 10 years later in aviation.

We all have to pay our dues as sorry as I am to say it, in any career, whether you are a doctor, lawyer, pilot or other.

Fortunately now as opposed to not so long ago, there are options for both low and higher experienced pilots, if you don't like KBAL move on. Quit whinning and bitching and apply elswhere.

I know lots who have left KBAL and have been surprised as to how good it was here after going elswhere.

There is always a better job, just make sure it is for you.

Long story short, myself, like most of us others, have had to do some pretty shitty jobs, for little to no reward, never got even a pat on the back from the boss. Is flying really that bad????? I don't think so.

Cheers, and fly safe.

Borek Sucks!

Borek

Tindi guy

Work, Work, Work.....