Here we go again. Must be the season of the witch. We have an accident, and all the finger pointing starts. All the warm and fuzzy wishes give way to the inevitable questions. Some want to grieve. Others want to know what happened. Folks get down right ugly with each other. People are told to "shut up". Everybody blames somebody else. They blame the weather. They blame ice. They blame everybody but the guy who screwed up. Because, unless there is some failure, that's what happened. Somebody descended too low, too soon. Somebody departed with contaminated wings. Somebody didn't stop for fuel. Somebody pushed into a black hole. Then, we get a round of Transport Canada bashing. (I'm guilty of that one) More finger pointing. More on how nice a guy/girl the pilot was. How he/she would never do such a thing. Is it the training? Is it the chief pilot's fault? Then we collect the names for some sort of a "wall" somewhere?
All this goes on, and yet, we are really missing the bottom line. The "buzz" words and terms are not working. If anything, it get worse every year. Every year, the same mistakes are repeated. This year, somebody will take off in a Caravan with ice on the wings. It's happened the last two years. Why not this year? What's changed?
There is a minimum descent altitude on your approach plate. Read it. Do not go below that number.
There are approach bans. Adhere to them. They are there for a reason.
Put enough frikken fuel in your airplane to make the trip. The reserve is just that...a reserve. If your boss thinks you should use your reserve fuel for the flight, tell him to piss off. Do it.
If you fly into ice, and there is ANY doubt, turn around.
Your aircraft has a designed gross weight. Get to know it. Use it. It's a limitation.
If you are solo, make bloody sure your auto pilot works. Or, don't go.
If the weather is at limits, brief for the missed approach. Not the landing. The landing should be the surprise. Not the missed approach.
Don't let the Captain kill you.
When your co-pilot speaks...listen.
Stay away from hard approaches to limits at night. Circling limits only please. If your boss has a problem with this, have him call me.
Read the numbers on the runway.
Do not do intersection departures from northern strips.
Land and take off into wind.
If your aircraft has a snag, put it in the book.
The guys upstairs might not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, but you are the one that get to the accident site first.
Transport Canada, SMS and all the politically correct bullshit ain't going to help you. YOU are on your own. Be careful out there.
I say, PAY ATTENTION!
Accidents
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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Mitch Cronin
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fugetaboudit
Last edited by Mitch Cronin on Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you take off at an intersection there was unused available runway behind???????
Last edited by onceacop on Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Athabascan Quote: "Know one knows the ways of the wind or the Caribou".
And those northern strips are only 3500' on average to start with. Its different then doing it off of say 36 in YWG where you will be on your first vector from centre while still over the runway.
The advice Doc gives is good stuff. Especially don't let your captain kill you. Sounds obvious, but REAL CRM is still not perfect in 703.
BTD
The advice Doc gives is good stuff. Especially don't let your captain kill you. Sounds obvious, but REAL CRM is still not perfect in 703.
BTD
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Mitch Cronin
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more fugetaboudit
Last edited by Mitch Cronin on Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It probably links back to the following lively debate (although there have been many others):Mitch Cronin wrote:...but that's always true, not just in the north.onceacop wrote:If you take off at an intersection there was unsued available runway behind???????
YXU, why doing intersection takeoffs?
However, it's all great advice...
You need to fix the organization and systems problems,
Before you can be successful with training programs,
To fix the pilot performance problems.
Before you can be successful with training programs,
To fix the pilot performance problems.
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Troubled_Coffee
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Doc, even with your slightly rabid style, I agree with every line. Maybe some of what you have said will rub off and stick in people's minds.
Even if you think you're having the time of your life out there (if you've been doing it longer than 4 years, likely you're not!) its still not worth getting killed over. When all the dust settles and we've finished discussing what you should not have done, you're still dead and we're not.
There is one hell of a lot of other neat things you can do with your life that have nothing to do with things with wings.
I'd like to add to the landing point - make EVERY landing a pleasant surprise. Plan every approach, VFR IFR, as if you are going to do a miss. Make sure every approach has an out. That's particularly difficult on floats, but there should be no excuse on wheels. Its only the ground that can hurt you, so stay up there until you're ready.
On any trip, if you're rushed or in a hurry, you have ALREADY added a couple of events to the chain that will lead to your accident!
Even if you think you're having the time of your life out there (if you've been doing it longer than 4 years, likely you're not!) its still not worth getting killed over. When all the dust settles and we've finished discussing what you should not have done, you're still dead and we're not.
There is one hell of a lot of other neat things you can do with your life that have nothing to do with things with wings.
I'd like to add to the landing point - make EVERY landing a pleasant surprise. Plan every approach, VFR IFR, as if you are going to do a miss. Make sure every approach has an out. That's particularly difficult on floats, but there should be no excuse on wheels. Its only the ground that can hurt you, so stay up there until you're ready.
On any trip, if you're rushed or in a hurry, you have ALREADY added a couple of events to the chain that will lead to your accident!
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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sky's the limit
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These are all salient points, but unfortunately there are many circumstances where pilots are pressured either from customers, employers or themselves to do things outside their normal operating envelope. This isn't so dangerous until it becomes habit, then the bar has been set at a different level, and once that happens, lowering it again is mightily difficult. The expectations are different, and habits are hard to break.(Look at the people who vote for Bush....
)
Please heed the advice above, make your own rules, set your own limits, and above all else, stand up for yourselves in terms of safety, compensation, and work environment. It's the only way we'll make things better.
As XS says, there are many other things to live for outside of flying, that extra effort you put in rarely comes back to you in aviation.
Stay safe.
stl
)Please heed the advice above, make your own rules, set your own limits, and above all else, stand up for yourselves in terms of safety, compensation, and work environment. It's the only way we'll make things better.
As XS says, there are many other things to live for outside of flying, that extra effort you put in rarely comes back to you in aviation.
Stay safe.
stl
Hey! That's my line!sky's the limit wrote:Stay safe.
Great thread Doc.
And if I may add, if you know someone who is facing a should I stay or should I go problem, or who is being stonewalled over a safety issue - stand up for them. Support them in their decision. Make sure they aren't blackballed as a result. Remember, it could be you next time.
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
This "rant" was brought about by just one more accident. I got really pissed off, had two beers, and just started typing.
Widow has a very good point. If somebody stands up for his right to say "NO", back him up on it.
ndt, sometimes I'll just "hang it out there". Happy to see you're thinking.
Widow has a very good point. If somebody stands up for his right to say "NO", back him up on it.
ndt, sometimes I'll just "hang it out there". Happy to see you're thinking.
Good post Doc,
Just one comment. Why is it that you stated when a co-joe speaks. listen., and did not mentione that maybe when a captain speaks, the co-joe shoud listen. Seems now adays it is all about listening to our FO's.
Just one comment. Why is it that you stated when a co-joe speaks. listen., and did not mentione that maybe when a captain speaks, the co-joe shoud listen. Seems now adays it is all about listening to our FO's.
Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
A perfect example of the sad state of the airline industry in this country can be clearly seen in the thread about the King Air crash on Oct 25. The childish immature mud slinging that occurred on this thread is a black mark on all who took part. GROW UP!
I actually edited a couple of posts made by a couple of these dimwits. Another "mod" felt he had to "lock" the thread. It boggles the mind, that such immature milk sots would be allowed to operate aircraft. Pity condoms weren't in more widespread use back when some of you were conceived.
I actually edited a couple of posts made by a couple of these dimwits. Another "mod" felt he had to "lock" the thread. It boggles the mind, that such immature milk sots would be allowed to operate aircraft. Pity condoms weren't in more widespread use back when some of you were conceived.
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Cat Driver
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Liquid Charlie
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I like to think of the pitcock as a benevolent dictatorship. It's a team but there is a chain of command - we walk that fine line all the time and all crew members must be allowed to express themselves -- someone starts yelling -- get out of there and sort it out later -- the flight deck is no place for "heated debates" or fist fights or that matter -- as silly as that sounds I know a few people who that have been involved -- silly rabbits -- when some in the crew is uncomfortable - time to go to plan "B"
Communication is where it's at --
Communication is where it's at --
