How many patches are too many?

bravowhiskey · Post by **bravowhiskey** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:02 pm

How many patches are too many? I seen a B1900 last night and it had close to 30 patches on the de-ice boot of one wing! That seems like alot to me. On the inner part of the wing there was a patch that had a patch over part of it.

groundtoflightdeck · Post by **groundtoflightdeck** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:03 pm

No limit if the boot inflates properly.

. . · Post by **. .** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:08 pm

I thought you couldn't have overlapping patches. I've never seen it written anywhere though.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:11 pm

You seen? You saw.... Sorry man, that's pretty rudimentary.

KISS_MY_TCAS · Post by **KISS_MY_TCAS** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:08 pm

Patches over patches are not a good idea. Different manufacturers state different limits for the number of patches allowed, the 1900 has it stated clearly in the maintenance manual. The 1900 has a limit for the number of patches per square foot, but there is no limit for how many you are allowed on the entire boot.

tincanflyer · Post by **tincanflyer** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:13 pm

groundtoflightdeck wrote:No limit if the boot inflates properly.

actual there is a limit on the 1900.....I beleive its soemthing like 5 in a one foot stretch

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:27 pm

I thought this thread was about patches on a Seneca jacket?

tired of the ground · Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:03 pm

how many patches are allowed?

One per hole

Howitzer · Post by **Howitzer** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:06 pm

I thought the thread was going to be about JC's coat.

Hotel Tango · Post by **Hotel Tango** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:08 pm

xsbank wrote:I thought this thread was about patches on a Seneca jacket?

There are no patches. You guys have to give it up. Why make up stuff on your quests to defame this one particular school.

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:25 pm

sky's the limit wrote:You seen? You saw.... Sorry man, that's pretty rudimentary.

Seen needs a helper: has, have or had.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:08 pm

Touchy, are we Hotel? Actually, I'm surprised only you rose to the bait - I've never actually seen a Seneca jacket.

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:48 am

As the Fonz once said, "It's not the jacket. It's who's in it".

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:55 am

The limits would be found in the manufacturers component maintenance manual which you should have a copy of if you are maintaining that component. It will tell you how to maintain the component (boot) and what their limits are.

CID · Post by **CID** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:07 am

What twotter said. Every airplane has unique requirements. I have difficulty with owners however who allow their boots to covered in several patches. Especially for some smaller airplanes where there is no published limit for the amount of patches. In those cases a little common sense and concern for the safety of your crew and passengers goes a long way.

I've seen some boots that have been on the airplane so long, the rubber is showing signs of cracking. It makes you wonder what AME considers that OK. Inspections for general condition shouldn't be based soley on what you can get away with.

who me ? · Post by **who me ?** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:30 am

Most manufactures have a recommended , service life , for wing de-ice boots. I seem to recall reading one manufactuer stated 11 years , from the date of installation, or the date on the boot ( like that would be readable ! ).
Call the QA manager ,he should be able determine what the requirement is, for the life limit of the boots , and the age of the boot(s) in question.

Pratt Punk · Post by **Pratt Punk** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:02 am

Goodrich De-Icer Installation,Maintenance & Repair Manual
30-10-31

"To maintain optimal functional efficiency of the de-icer, the following patch limits are recommended"

a. 3 small patches per 12" square
b. 2 medium patches per 12" square
c. 1 large patch per 12"square
d. 2 small patches and 1 medium patch per 12" square

"it is recommended that no more than 20 pinhole repairs are made per 12" square".

You would refer to this document, if there were no specifics on patch limitations referenced in the aircraft maintenance manual for your aircraft. Limitations published in a maintenance manual generally are based on these recommendations and may be ammended in some form for that model aircraft. In that case the airframe manufacturer's recommendations would supercede this document.

Other manufacturer's of deicers may have different limitations than Goodrich and you first want to determine what make of deicers you have installed.

My Name is Earl · Post by **My Name is Earl** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:21 am

Now lets debate what constitutes a small, medium, and large patch.

Blah Blah

Pratt Punk · Post by **Pratt Punk** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:12 pm

There are defined small, medium, and large patches that are found in Goodrich deicer repair kits. This is what they refer to.

Example 74-451-187 are small patches found in the 74-451-AA repair kit.
Don't quote me on those part numbers, but that is what they are talking about.

If you are going to repair a Goodrich deicer, you should be using a Goodrich deicer repair kit.

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:25 pm

ybp · Post by **ybp** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:04 pm

Good work Boosted, now your brining this thread around.

frontside_air · Post by **frontside_air** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:27 am

xsbank wrote:I've never actually seen a Seneca jacket.

ah i must have missed your house on halloween! i was too lazy to come up with a costume so i just wore my Senny jacket out for trick or treating. after graduation i had four gold braids sewn into the cuffs (got a first year student to do it) and a pair of 6" wings embroidered on it as well so as you can see- there are no real 'patches' on it (ugh, who would fly anything with boots anyways!? *gag*). the rest of my ensemble consisted of my usual gear- dolce&gabbana rose-tinted stunnah shades, an "air canada approved luggage" rollerbag and my flying watch (the citizen smallprickcompensamaster). i set off on the hunt for candy but by the second house i'd developed a blister on my hand from the handle of my rolliebag and started to get cold (usually there's enough gel in my hair to keep my head warm so i didn't think i would need a hat) so i called the fbo shuttle to pick me up and drive me home and tipped the driver a werther's. it was still early and i felt kind of silly for bailing out so soon and heading home. i'd heard numerous times that in order to make it in this business you have to be determined so i steeled my conviction, screwed my courage to the sticking post and decided, "self, don't let this beat you"...

i marched back out the door with the keys to my trust fund, 3-series bimmer, cranked up the "danger zone" and set out to git'er dun like i'd been trained to. it was kind of hard to see at night with my sunglasses on but i found it was a lot easier once i turned my high beams on so i just drove around with them on. i also left the interior lights on so people could see the wings and bars on my jacket and i guess it worked because a lot of on-coming cars would flash their highbeams at me too. after a couple of houses it became evident that it was grossly inefficient to pull into every driveway, shut down, trick or treat, empty the candy into my rollerbag in the back seat, get back in the car, go through the start checks and drive to the next one especially since it takes a minute or so for the heated seats to warm up. i smartened up and found a much more convenient way- i'd just roll to a stop by the curb in front of each house, lay on the horn until the homeowner came out to the car with the candy on a platter for me to pick what i wanted. some households were kind of cheap and only had crappy hardcandy which, having personal standards, i'd refuse outright (i deserve better than that after everything i've been through). anyhow before long i saw some clouds move in and didn't want to risk being caught out with some weather moving in so i high-tailed it home...the last thing i needed was water spots on my bmw (the ramp guy just washed it and i'd feel bad asking him to wash/groom it again so soon but i guess i shouldn't feel bad, if he wants a better job maybe he should have gone to a decent school and gotten himself a jacket too!).

TheEvilTwin · Post by **TheEvilTwin** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:51 am

Just ask Micro$oft about how many patches are required... they just keep on patching til something around the patch breaks, and then apply another one..

ski_bum · Post by **ski_bum** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:11 pm

frontside_air wrote:
xsbank wrote:I've never actually seen a Seneca jacket.
ah i must have missed your house on halloween! i was too lazy to come up with a costume so i just wore my Senny jacket out for trick or treating. after graduation i had four gold braids sewn into the cuffs (got a first year student to do it) and a pair of 6" wings embroidered on it as well so as you can see- there are no real 'patches' on it (ugh, who would fly anything with boots anyways!? *gag*). the rest of my ensemble consisted of my usual gear- dolce&gabbana rose-tinted stunnah shades, an "air canada approved luggage" rollerbag and my flying watch (the citizen smallprickcompensamaster). i set off on the hunt for candy but by the second house i'd developed a blister on my hand from the handle of my rolliebag and started to get cold (usually there's enough gel in my hair to keep my head warm so i didn't think i would need a hat) so i called the fbo shuttle to pick me up and drive me home and tipped the driver a werther's. it was still early and i felt kind of silly for bailing out so soon and heading home. i'd heard numerous times that in order to make it in this business you have to be determined so i steeled my conviction, screwed my courage to the sticking post and decided, "self, don't let this beat you"...

i marched back out the door with the keys to my trust fund, 3-series bimmer, cranked up the "danger zone" and set out to git'er dun like i'd been trained to. it was kind of hard to see at night with my sunglasses on but i found it was a lot easier once i turned my high beams on so i just drove around with them on. i also left the interior lights on so people could see the wings and bars on my jacket and i guess it worked because a lot of on-coming cars would flash their highbeams at me too. after a couple of houses it became evident that it was grossly inefficient to pull into every driveway, shut down, trick or treat, empty the candy into my rollerbag in the back seat, get back in the car, go through the start checks and drive to the next one especially since it takes a minute or so for the heated seats to warm up. i smartened up and found a much more convenient way- i'd just roll to a stop by the curb in front of each house, lay on the horn until the homeowner came out to the car with the candy on a platter for me to pick what i wanted. some households were kind of cheap and only had crappy hardcandy which, having personal standards, i'd refuse outright (i deserve better than that after everything i've been through). anyhow before long i saw some clouds move in and didn't want to risk being caught out with some weather moving in so i high-tailed it home...the last thing i needed was water spots on my bmw (the ramp guy just washed it and i'd feel bad asking him to wash/groom it again so soon but i guess i shouldn't feel bad, if he wants a better job maybe he should have gone to a decent school and gotten himself a jacket too!).

TOP NOTCH!!! That was a pretty good laugh...

I really liked the part about wearing sunglasses at night and turning on the interior lights so people could see my wings, oh my, TOP NOTCH!

cplanedriver · Post by **cplanedriver** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:05 pm

LMAO that was great FSAir. Can't ya just see that pud knocker????