Buying Planes
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BoostedNihilist
Buying Planes
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Last edited by BoostedNihilist on Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you can find a good airplane in Canada there are definitely less hassles. Maybe you can use the exchange as a bargaining chip.
If you find a good airplane in the US with good records it shouldn't be a big deal importing it. Unless you're talking about transport category. Then it can get a little more complicated.
If you find a good airplane in the US with good records it shouldn't be a big deal importing it. Unless you're talking about transport category. Then it can get a little more complicated.
Buying in Canada can be easier registration and TC approval wise. However, if you're going from private registration to commercial even that can be quite an ordeal. TC wants paper on every single part and item of work done for commercial registration. Many private airplanes don't have the necessary (from a regulation point of view) paper trail (traceability).
Buying in the US can financially be quite advantageous as many Canadian owners haven't come to grips with the exchange rate and still feel their planes should be worth more than an American one because they paid so much more when they bought it. It's a mindset thing and takes time to change.
Overall, make sure wherever you buy it that all the paperwork is in order, all SBs/ADs are complied with and that it is the right plane for your needs. All this being equal, take the best $$$$ deal.
Good luck - the money you spend on the research and pre-buy inspection(s) will be the best money you ever spend.
Buying in the US can financially be quite advantageous as many Canadian owners haven't come to grips with the exchange rate and still feel their planes should be worth more than an American one because they paid so much more when they bought it. It's a mindset thing and takes time to change.
Overall, make sure wherever you buy it that all the paperwork is in order, all SBs/ADs are complied with and that it is the right plane for your needs. All this being equal, take the best $$$$ deal.
Good luck - the money you spend on the research and pre-buy inspection(s) will be the best money you ever spend.
Being stupid around airplanes is a capital offence and nature is a hanging judge!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain
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BoostedNihilist
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aero-singidunum
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Get MD-M with local AME to get P/W for that airplane, get all AD's compliance faxed to them BEFORE you purchase anything. There is huge deal of lack of proper P/W with N registred planes. Not trying to scare you, but first look what is on the market, then when you choose plane, get all current records send to AME and MD-M (Minister Delegate for Import/Export) to go over P/W, and if P/W looks OK, get pre-purchase inspection completed by some other shop in States.
The most important thing you need to realize is that some (but not all) FAA FSDO's will allow modifications to be performed via a "form 337" that Transport would require an STC/STA for.
Please re-read the above paragraph. Slowly. A few times.
This means that any N-registered aircraft may have modifications that Transport simply will not accept as airworthy. This means that the modification will have to be removed, or you will have to create an STC for that modification (hahahahahahahaha).
Neither option is usually economically viable, unless you own Timmies.
Bottom line: there are many N-reg aircraft that simply are ineligible for import into Canada. But you may not know this until after you purchase, and your mechanic looks at the logs, and asks Transport for their opinion.
I would STRONGLY recommend that you join AOPA. Unlike COPA, AOPA is a truly useful organization. One of the many, many things that AOPA does for me, is that I can phone them up, and for $20 they will email me the complete list of 337's that the FAA has on file in OKC for any N-reg aircraft. So, even before you leave your computer, you can print them out, give them to your mechanic, and he can go over them with a fine tooth comb, and give you the thumbs up or thumbs down on whether or not Transport will accept the airplane.
As far as AD compliance goes ... my experience is that N-reg a/c have better AD compliance than C-reg aircraft, because an A&P/IA cannot sign off an annual on an N-reg a/c unless all AD's are current, which is NOT the case with C-reg.
Please re-read the above paragraph. Slowly. A few times.
This means that any N-registered aircraft may have modifications that Transport simply will not accept as airworthy. This means that the modification will have to be removed, or you will have to create an STC for that modification (hahahahahahahaha).
Neither option is usually economically viable, unless you own Timmies.
Bottom line: there are many N-reg aircraft that simply are ineligible for import into Canada. But you may not know this until after you purchase, and your mechanic looks at the logs, and asks Transport for their opinion.
I would STRONGLY recommend that you join AOPA. Unlike COPA, AOPA is a truly useful organization. One of the many, many things that AOPA does for me, is that I can phone them up, and for $20 they will email me the complete list of 337's that the FAA has on file in OKC for any N-reg aircraft. So, even before you leave your computer, you can print them out, give them to your mechanic, and he can go over them with a fine tooth comb, and give you the thumbs up or thumbs down on whether or not Transport will accept the airplane.
As far as AD compliance goes ... my experience is that N-reg a/c have better AD compliance than C-reg aircraft, because an A&P/IA cannot sign off an annual on an N-reg a/c unless all AD's are current, which is NOT the case with C-reg.
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BoostedNihilist
You just have to do your homework. Like has been mentioned by myself and others. Get hold of a "GOOD" MD-M. No they are not all created equal. Usually you can find one through your AME who will be doing the import for you. Again, not all are created equal. Do your homework. Ask around about anyone who has done this and see if they recommend either.
The 337 file can also be obtained directly from the FAA without going through AOPA. The 337's are in most cases acceptable to TC except when it is for something like you say for STOL kits etc where an STC/LSTA/ other approval will be required. Again, this is where your AME and MD-M can advise you once you get the CD from the FAA.
Good luck, PM me if you have any further questions.
The 337 file can also be obtained directly from the FAA without going through AOPA. The 337's are in most cases acceptable to TC except when it is for something like you say for STOL kits etc where an STC/LSTA/ other approval will be required. Again, this is where your AME and MD-M can advise you once you get the CD from the FAA.
Good luck, PM me if you have any further questions.
Yes. The FAA requires an A&P/IA to ensure that all AD's compiled with, when an annual is signed off on a N-reg a/c.So theoretically so long as an aircraft has an American annual all AD's are current?
Correct. There is no requirement for the AD's to be compiled with, for a Canadian AME to sign off an annual on a C-reg aircraft. If you are considering purchasing a C-reg aircraft, you really really really want to have YOUR AME do a pre-purchase inspection (which should include an AD check). I would strongly recommend that YOUR AME sign off an annual inspection on the prospective aircraft.Also theoretically a Canadian reg aircraft could potentially be in annual but also have a bunch of AD's piled up waiting for the next annual?
I wish I could tell you how many times an aircraft owner has whined to me about his first annual after he purchases a C-reg a/c which was supposedly airworthy ... then his mechanic wants $10,000 or $20,000 of work done to bring it up to his standards.
Do that first annual - with YOUR mechanic, not HIS - BEFORE the purchase!
You are missing an important detail. There is nothing wrong with a having a million 337's filed on a N-reg aircraft - as far as Transport is concerned - as long as each 337 is backed up by an STC/STA.If a Form 337 pops up on the perspective plane TC is basically going to tell me that because someone made their aircraft different from factory condition it can't be registered as a Canadian aircraft period.
The problem arises with the 337's that have modifications that are NOT backed up by an STC. The FAA requires engineering data, but Transport is under no obligation - read, good luck - to accept that engineering data.
I have spent many thousands of dollars of my own money, on this very topic.
Why on earth doesn't Transport explain this on their website? How embarrassing for Transport that it's prospective customers have to resort to anonymous websites, to learn how to deal with them.
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BoostedNihilist
Possibly surprising many, I must disagree. 90% to 95% of the people at Transport are good people. It's that other 1-in-10 or 1-in-20 (that any organization suffers from) that can make your life very unpleasant.what a bunch of dinks
Dealing with Transport is like dealing with either an elderly fairy godmother or a 300lb court jester with a nasty sense of humour in a leather dominatrix S&M suit. You never know which you're going to get. Most of the time, you get the fairy godmother, but every once in a while you get the S&M dude, who will give you a reaming you will never, ever forget.
One last piece of advice about buying an aircraft: please don't buy a "paint job". Many pilot/owners get sucked into buying a shiny aircraft with many, many other problems.
Buy an aircraft with:
1) no problematic/repetitive AD's
2) a corrosion-free (preferably damage-free) airframe
3) a good engine
4) good avionics
Paint & interior are the least important criteria. Get an aircraft that meets the above 4, and if it's got crappy original paint/interior, then take it to a paint/interior shop and have them make it look like new for you. That's assuming you're going to keep it a few years.
Here's a rule of thumb for you to remember: every $1000 you put into an aircraft (eg radios, engine) increases it's value $500. Guess which side of that equation you want to be on?
One piece of advice on paint jobs: please don't express your artistic creativity. I have seen some paint jobs that would make any hetereosexual vomit.
Paint your aircraft like the last year of production - it will fool people into thinking it's a newer airplane than it really is
