Dash 7 choices...

[Phileas Fogg]

Voyageur or Trans-Capital?

Which one?!?

[pilot to dispatch]

already sick of flying a jet?

[Phileas Fogg]

no, its for a "friend" of mine.

[Conquest Driver]

What about Air Tindi? Way better than either of the first two, in my opinion.

[xsbank]

Unfortunately, as much as I love the Dash7, I stopped flying her because the pay is sh*tty. Both Low Wageur and Trans-Capital think that to fly a 4-engine a/c is neat enough that they don't actually have to pay you.

That is true, as it is for all aircraft, for maybe 2 months, then it is the same old, same old.

The Dash is quite easy to fly and the STOL work is probably only bested by a Buff or a Herc (we called her the Quad-Otter), but she is difficult to manage as she doesn't have an APU so you need to keep number 4 running with a look-out posted (co-pilot), the air conditioning is a joke, her ability to catch ice combined with the blocker doors eating HP, waxing the high boots, the dreadfully slow climb to altitude, the low service ceiling, the difficulty in fuelling if you can't find a single-point delivery; if you have a cargo door, she packs a sh*t-load of freight, which you have to load and dump.

Anyway, you work damn hard with a Dash7 and (knowing nothing about Tindi) the wages are awful.

Trans Capital used to send you overseas, jam you all in a crew house, there was no transport home if you got sick just local hospitals, you worked virtually with no days off and (cue the chorus) sh*tty pay. The per diems sucked too, but then where you were based they were adequate. Tropical locations (remember the air con?).

Low Wageur - see the myriad of postings - do a search.

[Phileas Fogg]

Wow, BLEAK!

[5x5]

as much as I love the Dash7

and then

she is difficult to manage as she doesn't have an APU so you need to keep number 4 running with a look-out posted (co-pilot), the air conditioning is a joke, her ability to catch ice combined with the blocker doors eating HP, waxing the high boots, the dreadfully slow climb to altitude, the low service ceiling, the difficulty in fuelling if you can't find a single-point delivery;

If this is an airplane you love, please don't depress us by writing about one you hate.

[xsbank]

Hey 5X5, ever flown DC3? Or a Stoneboat? Its also hard work to fly these guys; I liked managing a Dash7, but all I wrote was the truth. The Dash7 demands PAY for all that work, but nobody else seems to think that.

Try flying the Dash in and out of tiny dirt strips - to steal someone else's expression, IT ROCKS! Its great on the ground, backs up nicely, has high props and has FOUR throttles

[kilpicki]

About 55 airframes left flying so maybe there is something out there to suit your lifestyle.

There was 3 or 4 flying out of Lagos a few years ago!!!

[dashx]

but she is difficult to manage as she doesn't have an APU so you need to keep number 4 running with a look-out posted (co-pilot), the air conditioning is a joke, her ability to catch ice combined with the blocker doors eating HP, waxing the high boots, the dreadfully slow climb to altitude, the low service ceiling, the difficulty in fuelling if you can't find a single-point delivery; if you have a cargo door, she packs a sh*t-load of freight, which you have to load and dump

Well well well......

You could always shut down all 4 pull the required breakers and still start 3 without a hot start (standard checklist). And learn to "milk" the condition lever when starting the engine eh? OR don't spend forever doing your checks with batteries on. Air cond was (is) a simple system and you always had the toggle switches for manual mode. It's too bad the Dash 8 systems are over engineered and a pain in th a.. to troubleshoot. Unfortunately quite a few pilots cranked the auto dials to the left and froze the packs (duh) then wondered why it didn't work. And thank goodness for the diverter valve mod....cool in summer and warm in winter at the frt eh?
As far as icing goes what the f.. do you expect with all that hardware flapping and hanging in the breeze? waxing the high boots?? What is this a joke? When you have a high wing high tail aircraft you have the proper equipment Or ..... go to a hangar with the lift to get you to the tail. And the dreadfully slow climb to altitude??? Tropic temps + old PT6 engines + gross weight + maybe overgross cause the fuel gauges were not correct = what you think is too slow. I mean where were going anyway??? Bali ??? Single point refuelling?? Pretty much any airport I've been to (that includes all reserves up north too). But hey what about that folding ladder in the back and over the wing refuelling (wax that....) Oh ya that's the "difficulty" part.....
As far loading goes what were you expecting a holiday????

I still hear "That's not my job".

Gee 5 years ago most people got paid in US dollars and that was a decent exchange no? And if you lived on noodles and KD you could bring back a lot of your per diem No? Why even steak on the "barby" wasn't a bank breaker was it???

The 7 was described to me as a big Cessna (say it with a french accent) at one time and as one old timer put it was a good airplane to retire on (oh but what am I saying there are guys 67 and up still flying them overseas). And they seem to enjoy what they are doing.

And it is still an excellent multi engine turboprop to build time on.....I mean how easy is the Dash 8 to start??? Even the start button pops out no? I seem to recall the auto pilot on as soon as the gear was up and the plane was established in a climb (what 2 or 3 minutes after take off???).

Trying backing up a Dash 8. No fun there....eh? Oh you can definitely have fun in a 7. Just stick those big ole flaps to 45 and watch her drop......I guarantee you'll scare the s-hit out of the tough guys in the back seats....

Let's face it most guys go to TCA and Voyageur because they are low time pilots and (perphaps just perhaps) no one else will hire them (did I really say that?) It's sink or swim. You make s-hitty money (your personal experience) get your hours and move on. There really is no need to bite the hand that gave you that first "big airplane" experience. Is there?

Ya ya I know its tough when they ask you to extend or you don't have a return ticket or "Insert their weak reasons for asking you extend here"

I enjoyed each and every overseas rotation (well I could tell you the crappy aspect of "crew houses" but why??) just as I enjoyed all the charter work I did up north summer and winter.

BTW Air Tindi now has three Dash 7-103 models flying with a hangar to boot (2003 was a good year eh?). Did you see the youtube video of Air Tindi 7 doing the low flyby??? Nose down tail up.....nice .....

Anyway tell your "friend": Try it and if you don't like it leave.....

[xsbank]

How 'bout Slave Lake to Kamloops at 20,000+++ on a summer day with thunderstorms all around?

I gave you my opinion, I told you I liked the Dash, but you have to admit that flying a 4-engine a/c for King Air wages is bullsh*t. That's what I was complaining about. Way too much work for Mickey Mouse wages. Go for it if you wish, I gave it up. And no, I did not go through Low Wageur.

If you think overseas work is fun, do it for what its worth - you are the lowest paid UN guy there. All the other countries pay better than Canadian companies.

[dashx]

xsbank

Throwing in the UN was just too good to resist. Don't even start to compare yourself to the UN. You were a contractor. You had medical insurance that the company paid for. BTW did you also have a life insurance policy (just in case) that the company paid for. The UN was more or less coerced into looking after the flight crew in ET because they needed the planes/choppers to fly for them and the plane was a way out for them (just in case) . You know... some of those UN workers were volunteers......

You never mentioned if you flew as a captain or F/O. Bacause you know... captains never paid for the training.... F/O's had to. A friend quit because he couldn't afford to raise a family on the wage. But can you guess where he went ???????

If you think overseas work is fun, do it for what its worth - you are the lowest paid UN guy there. All the other countries pay better than Canadian companies.

Next time how about a positive spin on your comment......you know booze women parties free food side trip to Thailand (the outback perhaps) If you tell me you were a wall flower I'll get my kerchief to dry my tears...

[xsbank]

I think you miss my point - I gave up the Dash7, which I liked to fly, because the wages sucked. Period. Guys were making more on a Twin Otter (probably still are). I'm tickled pink you like it so much, enjoy. I needed to make a living and that didn't do it for me. I have done so much better since.

That's it.

I've had "side trips" to Thailand and other nice places too, but now I stay in 5* hotels and not crew houses, have an APU which runs the air conditioning just fine, have an airplane that climbs quite happily well past FL210 and get paid (at least) double what the Dash paid. I still get a little nostalgic for the Dash, liked the STOL work etc., I hated the pay.

I hated the pay. I also didn't pay for my training and yes, I was a Captain.

Did I mention that I hated the pay?

[shower of sparks]

hey xs and dash, i am interested in working for trans capital because i am a relative low timer when it comes to heavies. i am willing to sacrifice some things for this experience. could you tell me if the bond you or make you pay for training as an f/o and what is the pay and the rotations?

sos

[xsbank]

Sorry, Shower, never worked for them. Good seat for a low-timer, it will make you ambitious!

[raven54]

I can see where XS is coming from. If you need really high altitudes on the dash7, you'll be wishing for more hp, if you don't have proper ground support then you'll be cursing the 10000lbs of shit you're chucking around. I flew the dash with tindi, easy routes, amazing ground support, great schedule and really good pay. 'Bout the most fun flying I've done.

[xsbank]

I always hoped I'd see a Dash7 with -67s on her! That would make the old girl hop!

[dashx]

The story on the engines is that GE was approached by Dehavilland but was not interested so..... PWC it was.

then when GE woke up it was too late.

The US military was interested but seems it was too expensive even for them to retrofit......

Anyway.......

If you really want to fly a 7 for TCA F/O pay is c-rap.....Last I heard it was 3K per month and they will deduct 1K per month until its paid off...

Maybe it's different now.

3 bases currently: Nepal Haiti and Ivory Coast. All have decent accomodations. I know this because I still keep in touch with the AME's who have been there (and one or two who are currently on location)



If you area captain no cost to you and you can "make a deal".

[Barney]

Any current conditions on Trans Capital Air. Pay, rotations, for an F/O.

[dashx]

I'll bet it still sucks.

And maybe they'll ask you to go to Afghanistan........

Enjoy.

[gasper]

I remember seeing a full-performance landing (albeit without payload) that couldn't have been more than a 800' foot rollout. Incredibly short for an aircraft of that size! Overseas, I once watched a Dash 7 crew fly a take-off with an oversized payload. It was a much longer takeoff from what I had been expecting & I later asked the pilot how much of a payload they had on-board. He laughed and said they calculated that they took off more than 10,000 lbs overgross, and that the stall warning sounded for a long time after they were in the air???

...but seems to me that it must be an expensive aircraft to operate, with about 4 of everything instead of 2.

[Westward_Bound]

......you know booze women parties free food side trip to Thailand (the outback perhaps)

Huh, who are we talking about? That sounds like a dream job. Sign me up!!!

[dashx]

He laughed and said they calculated that they took off more than 10,000 lbs overgross

Was he wearing cowboy boots?