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Dust Devil wrote:I like this one I think it shows that this guy deserved to be tased. Despite what the commentators said he wasn't tased for asking a question he was tased for resisting.
Heaven forbid, people should be allowed to "resist" autocratic idiocy.
I've felt frustrated beyond words so many times at the BS involved with travel in these post-911/fear mongering days. Should we all be tazered pre-boarding?
Its also on the Vancouver Province newspaper web site.
It actually has the whole video for several minutes leading up to the police arrival and the conclusion. I am usually a fairly strong supporter of RCMP and the challenges they face in their job. but this time, I gotta say it looks pretty bad. Yes the guy did trash a computer which is definitely a poor lead up. But they cops were informed that he did not speak English and they handled it very abruptly, and I would say poorly. They talked to him for not even 30 seconds and then circled him like a pack of dogs and zapped him twice. From the video, I specifically say from the video, it looks like he made no threatening motions or lunges and they just put him down.
You would think given the information they were provided, they could have been more diplomatic in the confrontation. The people knew he was scared and upset and obviously having a traumatic time. He obviously wasn't armed since he had come through security a few times, so how the hell was he gonna hurt them. Someone mentioned a stapler, are you kidding me??! Thats just an excuse to get their gun off if that is what they are citing. As a kid how many times did you accidentally staple yourself, and as a 6 year old you could handle it!! (No I am not proud to admit that but its necessary to make the point) They are wearing heavy jackets and bullet proof vests!!! What a bloody shame.
Maybe this will trigger an inquiry into the use of tasers. As the news report said, police use tasers as a means to not have to manhandle their target. The report also stated that multiple use of the weapon has the most lethal effect, like that is a surprise. Mellow, nice trolling. I have yet to hear of a person in custody being shot in the back of the head because he produced a shev, what planet are you from? Ian Bush was having a pissing match with a green, young cop. That is why he was arrested for having an open beer at a hockey game. Its past time these cops were reigned in, and their level of training and supervision revisited.
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You will never live long enough to know it all, so quit being anal about it..
You would think people in an industry like ours could appreciate minimizing risk and having to make decisions without being second guessed. I haven't seen the video yet but I would bet it's less risky to taser someone and cuff them then get in close and doing it.
They definitely didnt waste much time deciding to take him down, once they got there.
I dont know that I would have done things much differently myself, from the untrained observers POV. He didnt cooperate with their requests, was obviously agitated and behaving irrationally. Communication difficult to say the least. He had a chance to stop, and try to communicate with them, he instead tried to leave.
At the beginning of the video, he is breathing very strangely and throughout the whole foottage acting very odd and looks a little disoriented.
Be interesting to hear the coroners report on tox tests, as well as possible physical injuries.
That was very disturbing to watch. The guy obviously didn't deserve to die but I don't think the cops were out of line in assessing the situation. The guy taking the video seemed like a bit of a douche though.
Canada? More like some South American country under the rule of some military junta and those are the enforcing gorillas…I hope none of the guys supporting this actions by the cops ever find themselves in the hands of these orangutans with guns.
"Greeting Area" my ass. Don't tell me the f*ckwits who watch the security cameras didn't see him before ten hours? A 'high security area? How did he get through Custom and Immigration if he couldn't speak English? How would they know if he was trying to smuggle a bottle of gin into the country? Where was the help from airport staff?
I think the police need to be pilloried and the individual officers, if not charged, at least fired. Whatever happened to defusing a situation? There were 4 of them! None of the cops witnessed him smashing things, and even that was obviously frustration. Is that the penalty for smashing things, getting tasered? And why was that cop driving him with his baton? He wasn't already down and half dead? Interesting to see what the victim's face looked like...
Even that woman tried to help him in a sort of half-assed way. If this is how the RCMP behave out there, this is normal, no wonder they're getting shot.
Disgusting. I am a law and order sort of guy and having flown a lot of RCMP guys around, had great respect for them, but this poor guy was executed.
Maybe they got called away from their donuts and they were cheesed off. They should get rid of all tasers and we might see the cops having to do some policing again. 4 Of them......
Be afraid, very, very afraid.
Welcome to Canada. ZZZZAP!
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Last edited by xsbank on Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
Dust Devil wrote:That was very disturbing to watch. The guy obviously didn't deserve to die but I don't think the cops were out of line in assessing the situation. The guy taking the video seemed like a bit of a douche though.
They hit him with the taser twenty five seconds after they arrived; despite being told by the YVR security guards that the man spoke no english, this was timed by CBC Vancouver. If Tayfel can be convicted of criminal negligence causing death, why can't these clowns? The video shows quite clearly that he wasn't a threat to anybody; witness the woman who stood within feet of him while trying to talk to him, or the security guards who were obviously so threatened by him that they turned their backs to him and casually walked away. RCMP handling of this poor guy was a travesty and they should face criminal charges; but it's not going to happen, unfortunately.
Sorry, didn't mean to come off as callous, no question he didn't deserve to die.
Barely deserved the use of force to restrain him, my original point was that I am pretty sure thats all the cops were trying to apply, was some measure of restraining force.
I still havent heard anything definitively showing the advantage of using physical force vs. taser, seems to me a knee to the neck or a severe-stress related condition could have easily caused the same outcome.
As to wether he deserved to be restrained at all, I think if I came on that scene, people gawking, some guy sweating and yelling, throwing furniture and smashing the place up, everyone afraid to go near him, I think I'd be inclined to get the situation under physical control first. But, like I said, thats an untrained opinion. I'm sure we'll hear a lot more opinions in the next few weeks.
nacho wrote:Canada? More like some South American country under the rule of some military junta and those are the enforcing gorillas…I hope none of the guys supporting this actions by the cops ever find themselves in the hands of these orangutans with guns.
I can guarantee I won't be in that situation in Canada.
Taser victim had no drugs or alcohol in system, lawyer says
Test results show Robert Dziekanski had no drugs or alcohol in his system when he died minutes after police subdued him with a Taser on Oct. 13, his family's lawyer said Friday.
Dziekanski died at Vancouver International Airport four minutes after police hit him at least twice with a Taser.
Zofia Cisowski with her son Robert Dziekanski in Poland, before she immigrated to Canada.Zofia Cisowski with her son Robert Dziekanski in Poland, before she immigrated to Canada.
(Global)
Lawyer Walter Kosteckyj told CBC News he learned the results of drug and alcohol tests from the coroner's office Friday morning.
"I expected them to come back negative," Kosteckyj said.
"He had been in a restricted area where you couldn't get access to food or water. It's certainly consistent with the fact that there was nothing in his luggage that the police found that would indicate there was any form of drugs or alcohol abuse."
Dziekanski's mother, Zofia Cisowski, said the toxicology results are no surprise.
"I'm so happy for the result because no drugs, no alcohol on him, and I'm so happy," Cisowski said.
Additionally, I just watched a news clip saying that there is a dedicated, 24-hour translation service with 125 languages offered at YVR. I'm wondering why security didn't try to use it, as well as why the cops didn't know about it.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Nietzsche
I think there's a great deal of over-reaction here to the actions of the police. From what I understand tazers aren't considered lethal weapons. It's unfortunate the guy died but he was acting pretty eratically.
I think there needs to be an investigation to learn if any mistakes were made and how they can improve the use of tazers in the future but I don't think the cops in the video deserve the wrath I'm detecting here.
Cops in this country put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe. Like any industry there's an element of coruption and incompetance but overall we owe them alot.
Yeh that is a valid reason to tazer him huh?
I dunno. Let's ask this man's family:
There were 4 of them! None of the cops witnessed him smashing things, and even that was obviously frustration. Is that the penalty for smashing things, getting tasered?
I dunno. Let's ask the families of these four gentlemen:
Because police die in the line of duty is in no way a justification for what happened to the individual at YVR. When authority is no longer properly controlling the enforcers of the law, they both need to be taken to task.
The RCMP (mainly command) of late have been comporting themselves like idiots and rank amateurs. That could very well be the cause of the death of the young officers who were killed on patrol in nwt. The whole system is due for a shakedown.
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You will never live long enough to know it all, so quit being anal about it..
Is it fair to leave an unconscious man to die on the floor without attempting resuscitation, given that you were trained in CPR?
I dunno, let's ask this man's family:
I don't know the extent of his physical condition but it makes no sense to leave someone who is not breathing and has no pulse to die on the floor when you have the knowledge to assist them. Whether or not the taser was justified, my concern remains that the police didn't assist an unconscious man; or am I missing something here?
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"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Nietzsche
Cops in this country put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe.
Ahh, yes, the standard 'law-and-order' line.."we risk our lives every day" yadda yadda..If it was that dangerous a job, it'd show up in the statistics as such. But policing doesn't even make the top ten list of dangerous jobs, unlike say, flying, or mining or logging or fishing..
Quote:
There were 4 of them! None of the cops witnessed him smashing things, and even that was obviously frustration. Is that the penalty for smashing things, getting tasered?
I dunno. Let's ask the families of these four gentlemen:
Completely different scenario. Known anti-authority crackpot. Had trouble before, and was known to have firearms.
Very poor management of the situation in Mayerthorpe by the senior members at that time, IMHO
The people on the scene in YVR figured out that the guy didn't speak English - perhaps Russian..you can clearly hear them telling the police that, and yet, once the police enter the room where the guy is, they wait about 24 seconds before letting loose with the zapper. Did they even try to communicate? or was it all in English? No wonder the guy didn't comply..
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Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
So what was that cop hammering on him with his baton for? The victim was already tased, maybe even twice, he was on the floor.
It is a DUTY to render assistance when someone is in trouble, up to the level of your professional competence and nobody applied CPR. All those cops are trained in resuscitation. I'd call THAT criminal negligence.
Whatever happened to getting a person to put their hands on the top of their head? International surrender pose, yet none of our four heroes asked.
This is virtually an execution. You can't tell me that tasers are not known to kill and you will never convince me the cops don't know this.
At least the whole thing is on tape and the whole world will see it. Maybe the authorities will be too embarrassed to try to sweep this one under the carpet like the poor sod who got shot in the back of the head.
This is just like Keystone - after they punish the Neanderthals with the taser, then Parliament has to deal with the RCMP culture, training and oversight.
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"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
xsbank wrote:So what was that cop hammering on him with his baton for? The victim was already tased, maybe even twice, he was on the floor.
It is a DUTY to render assistance when someone is in trouble, up to the level of your professional competence and nobody applied CPR. All those cops are trained in resuscitation. I'd call THAT criminal negligence.
Whatever happened to getting a person to put their hands on the top of their head? International surrender pose, yet none of our four heroes asked.
This is virtually an execution. You can't tell me that tasers are not known to kill and you will never convince me the cops don't know this.
At least the whole thing is on tape and the whole world will see it. Maybe the authorities will be too embarrassed to try to sweep this one under the carpet like the poor sod who got shot in the back of the head.
This is just like Keystone - after they punish the Neanderthals with the taser, then Parliament has to deal with the RCMP culture, training and oversight.
Look closer-I think he is collpasing his baton on the floor for storage, not hitting the guy.
Criminal negligence at the very least. There needs to be charges of at least manslaughter in this case. That was very poorly handled.
As to the fellows behavior and breathing, he looked to me to be suffering a panic attack or perhaps had blood sugar issues. That would explain irrational behavior. The guy grew up in a communist state where corruption of officials is the order of the day, sits through a very long flight, lands where nobody speaks his language, expects to meet his mother at the baggage claim but it is in a secure area and he waits for her for 6 hours before trying to leave. He sees the officials who immediately surround him and give no signals to surrender , then taser him. Wow. No doubt he has been through several layers of security so it is safe to say he is unarmed.
We employ a lot of knuckle dragging testosterone charged morons in the police forces today and this result is about what I would expect of them. I have always been a big RCMP supporter but this case is disgraceful.
nacho wrote:Canada? More like some South American country under the rule of some military junta and those are the enforcing gorillas…I hope none of the guys supporting this actions by the cops ever find themselves in the hands of these orangutans with guns.
I can guarantee I won't be in that situation in Canada.
Never say never....I sure hope not for your sake. You don't have to trash a computer at the airport...maybe just the wrong answer to a trafiic stop, or the wrong attitude...
Or you're saying because of his actions he got himself there?
