Realistic Ramp Time???

ShooterMcGavin · Post by **ShooterMcGavin** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:58 am

I'm wondering what the realistic time working on the ramp is? I've been quoted 1-2 years. The reason I ask is because I believe that working on the ramp is valuable experience. At the same time I would like to get flying and think that I've got a decent number of hours to get a flying position.

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:47 am

The way the industry is going right now there is NO reason to work the ramp anywhere. If you have a decent amount of time then don't settle for anything less than a seat in an airplane.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:08 am

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:08 am

Working the ramp can be a great way to gain insight into a companies operations. Also while working the ramp at a busy northern/northern feeder airport you have lots of opportunity to network with other companies and shop around for what suits you. It can quite often work to your advantage.
However, like bcflyer said you dont have to work the ramp in this industry climate. If the job is with the right company that will treat you well in the long run and give you a reasonable deal in writing to go flying then it might work out. BUT be warned with things moving along the way they are right now after 10 months of working the ramp you will be banging your head against the wall wondering what went wrong until you finally get hired which could be as long as 2 years. It really is not great for physical and mental health. Good luck in the search!

husky · Post by **husky** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:19 am

I think maybe a couple weeks to a month on the ramp for a low-timer is good experience. Anything beyond that is indentured servitude. Good luck finding a company that will move you up that fast though. Just remember, you will almost always be passed over for that instructor who's not really any better pilot than you, but has a couple hundred hours more than you. The current industry almost makes it worse for low timers on the ramp because all the higher time captains are leaving for the bigger fish and most smallish operators are desperate for ANYTHING that means getting people in the left seat faster.

ShooterMcGavin · Post by **ShooterMcGavin** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:23 am

Thanks for all of your replies. Just to let you know....I am one of those Instructors!

husky · Post by **husky** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:24 pm

Well then, I wouldn't recommend working the ramp at all.

double-j · Post by **double-j** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:09 pm

No offence, but aren't the replies all from guys who haven't 'worked the ramp' for a looong time??

What about the guys out there who just got out of school? What do they have to say?

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:49 pm

I was on the ramp not super long ago. I'm betting you can bypass it all together and get flying if you have more than 500hrs

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:59 pm

lucky guy..

I'm at 500TT + Mind you, all volunteer work.. But i'm looking at doing at least a year on the ramp maybe more like 3 from what i've bene quoted

futboler14 · Post by **futboler14** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:33 am

I've in my last week and a half at school and by Christmas I will have my Multi IFR and IATRA written.

By then I will have about 430 hrs or so. I've tried to start early and applied to a couple places for starting flying jobs. So far no replies. I dont know if it is because I'm still in school or if they expect me to work on the ramp. I wont mind working on the ramp, i just hope it wont have to be more than a year with the way people are moving everywhere in the industry.

-Futboler14

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:37 am

canpilot wrote:lucky guy..

I'm at 500TT + Mind you, all volunteer work.. But i'm looking at doing at least a year on the ramp maybe more like 3 from what i've bene quoted

With 500+ hrs you can find a flying job in this industry. There is absolutely no reason to work the ramp for 1yr much less 3!! I've said it before and I'll say it again, if they don't think you're experienced enough to fly their planes now, why would you be experienced enough in 1-3yrs? You won't have any more hours. As for the argument that they want to get to know you before they put you in an airplane, thats what the interview is for.

El Comat · Post by **El Comat** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:33 am

canpilot wrote:lucky guy..

I'm at 500TT + Mind you, all volunteer work.. But i'm looking at doing at least a year on the ramp maybe more like 3 from what i've bene quoted

Try Sandy Lake Seaplane. They have 206s and a 207 that run day VFR charters in NWO. Great place for a low timer to skip the ramp and start building operational PIC time (plus some float time if you've got the rating). Sandy Lake isn't exactly a bustling city, but a year there will get you into the right seat of something turbine.

EC

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:47 am

canpilot wrote:lucky guy..

I'm at 500TT + Mind you, all volunteer work..

Please pardon my ignorance, but what do you volunteer?

Good luck in your search anyway

Floats

SQ · Post by SQ » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:02 am

ShooterMcGavin wrote:I'm wondering what the realistic time working on the ramp is? I've been quoted 1-2 years. The reason I ask is because I believe that working on the ramp is valuable experience. At the same time I would like to get flying and think that I've got a decent number of hours to get a flying position.

hey man here is an add for you : http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=37019

enjoy........

rex sterling · Post by **rex sterling** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:26 am

I know the industry is in a good state right now, but why does everyone think they can skip working the ramp in order to get into the right seat. No one wants to work the ramp, but most of us have done it to get our start in this industry. You will learn more from an operational standpoint working the ramp or dipatch for a year than you will flying circuits from the right seat. Everyone wants something for nothing nowadays....show a little work ethic and initiative and earn your checkout!

SQ · Post by SQ » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:35 am

the "operational things" you'll learn doing ramp or dispatch we'll be tought to you during your pilot training = waste of time.

you'll learn much more from a real right seat...
Once again : when EVERYBODY will STOP WORKING THE RAMP IN ORDER TO GET A RIGHT SEAT , operators will be forced to hire direct right seat.

haven't you understood that a general behaviour can become a strength ?

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:24 pm

SQ

BINGO!

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:57 pm

rex sterling wrote: You will learn more from an operational standpoint working the ramp or dipatch for a year than you will flying circuits from the right seat. Everyone wants something for nothing nowadays....show a little work ethic and initiative and earn your checkout!

I'm with SQ on this one. I didn't work the ramp and I can guarantee that I MORE than earned my checkout. It boils down to this, are you a pilot or a rampie?

THEICEMAN · Post by **THEICEMAN** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:15 pm

Y ramp...I am in the low 200 hundreds & I called for a Navajo job!

Jobs everywhere....let's party!

rex sterling · Post by **rex sterling** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:01 pm

bcflyer,

Just kind of curious as to how you "MORE than earned your checkout." There are many of us out there who have worked long and hard to get our checkouts. It was our work ethic that made us stand out amongst the group that we were with. So what you are saying is that we sold out to get where we are? Why should'nt a company get an idea of what kind of worker, or person you are before they let you loose in one of their planes? If you have to prove yourself by driving a forklift, loading a plane, or riding a desk to see how things work, like so many of us have....whats the problem with that? By refusing to do the same job that most of us have had to do to advance in our careers, you might as well tell us we were alll idiots for doing what we did! Suck it up, nothing worth having comes easy in life!

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:58 pm

"...you are all idiots for what you did..." True Rex, true.

(Cue the recording) working the ramp is slave labour and is only necessary when times are tough. You can learn everything you need to know about an operation in less than a month - if you are not being checked out you are being hosed.

When will you get it through your heads, you paid your money, you passed the exams, you flew the checkride - you are professional pilots and the ramp is only an option if you need groceries while you look for a flying job.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:34 pm

rex stirling....you are one of the many who worked long and hard for your checkouts? Your words. Not mine. If you think, that after spending upwards of THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS for a license only to work the ramp is the way to go...then YOU ARE part of the problem. And, you're probably only worth the slave wages the company, who's ass you're kissing, is paying you. Don't ram you 1990's attitude down anyone else's throat. If you had 250 hours when you started on the ramp......that's all the experience you have, that's worth a pail of rodent snot! Unless you want to be a fork lift driver.

xsbank...the ramp should only be an option for non pilots...or guys working towards their license.

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:49 pm

It's really easy to bash working the ramp in today's market, especially when companies quote you 2 years wait time. If I had 250hrs I'd probably laugh at them too.

But there will come a time again when the "lurking" days will return, and the 250hr pilot won't have nearly as many options as they do today. Salaries will drop, working conditions will deteriorate, and pilots will once again start to whore themselves out for a job on a navajo.

If you are offered a ramp job in today's market and have NO other offers, do yourself a favour and take the job. While you are working on the ramp, send out as many resumes as you can and keep applying to other companies. If a better offer comes up, LEAVE. If not, stick it out, it will pay off in the end.

13 months ago I was on the ramp. I just completed my captain's training on a metro a few days ago and will be doing single-pilot bagruns on the barons next month. Working the ramp worked well for me and has for many other pilots.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:27 pm

Doc, I think that's what I said and have always said, working the ramp is slave labour and not for pilots, unless they use it as part of a checkout. I mean a checkout RIGHT AWAY, not months or years from now.

The reason that companies use new pilots on the ramp is 1) no normal person would work the ramp for minimum wage or less; 2) a new pilot is naive enough to believe the bs he's told. 3) the management is so screwed up that they have no idea how to plan, staff, or actually run a business so they will lie like a sidewalk to get some dumb pilot to be a rampie.

Work the ramp and don't be a pilot, if you insist. Most of the guys who are now being checked out after having spent years on the ramp are years behind the guys who did not work the ramp.

Real, professional ramp guys, like good dispatchers, will make a company - why is it that management doesn't get it?

For any new guy who is looking for work, I know its hard to get that first job but apply as a pilot, that's what you are!

Realistic Ramp Time???

Realistic Ramp Time???

Re: Realistic Ramp Time???