An unprofessional operator - what to do?

[summitx]

PCA has been providing air service to our community for almost two years now and the community is happy to have them here. Its great to see some competition to AC (20 min down the road) and work out of the south terminal. The problem is how the pilots are managing operating in the local air space. They almost never make the vfr calls as per the book and if they mis one or two that would be ok, the ifr cookpit is a busy place however it is not uncommon to for the first call to be on short final or the 5 min call happens and no call on final. On more than one occasion I have seen them show up on the ground with no calls on the airport freq. Same applies for their departures. In addition they are regualarly taking tail winds on the landings as they do no wind checks. Two days ago I watched them touch down 1/2 down the runway. Got away with it on a dry runway good vis etc. There is wind information available to them via radio on the ground however they do not call the ground attandant for this info just fly the shortest approach and deal with it.

I was questioning my concerns and thinking I was perhaps being too picky getting old and should just talk lots when I'm operating in the airspace. I discussed this with a friend who works for Jazz has 15,000 plus in a dash. His responce was it was just plain unprofessional, why do it, why not stay with the regs and sops It won't take any more time or cost anymore and would be a professional approach. Safety is all about professionalisum.

So what to do......I'm not the kind of person to get on the radio and start to rag on the pilots and do not feel this is an appropriate way to go.....I sent an email to ops no reply and no change.....I hate to go to Transport as I've worked in aviaition and know the challenges.......I will feel real guility if I say nothing and they have a mid air or run off the end break up and burn. Any ideas?

[xsbank]

I would get on the phone and speak to the Chief Pilot about your concerns. If he is doing his job he will be very interested in what you tell him. Try and document the events as you see them.

[bin landin]

XS bankI

Phone the chief pilot? What kind of a wussy idea is that? Shoulder launched, surface to air missiles.....shoot 'em down. Break into their computer and call all their customers....
lets show some imagination here!

Seriously, that is good advice. If I may add my two cents, these situations sometimes get a little emotional...I would send the CP and the OPs Mgr a fax or email. Detail exactly what it is you find professional.
Dates and times. I think you will get a far better response.

And if that doesnt work.....reread the first paragraph.[/quote]

[Phileas Fogg]

yeah thats brutal.

I'd go out and talk to the pilots after they landed and tell them they're not in the arctic anymore.

[sky's the limit]

yeah thats brutal.

I'd go out and talk to the pilots after they landed and tell them they're not in the arctic anymore.

And exactly what is that supposed to mean?

In my experience, there's few places as unforgiving as the arctic. You operate from places that don't let you off the hook easily like the pavement down south. Also, I'm fairly certain that PCA has very few pilots with any kind of Arctic experience.

As for the aledged infractions, talk to the pilots first next time, if that doesn't meet a decent response, then as XS says, call the CP.


stl

[Cat Driver]

then as XS says, call the CP.

Agreed, that is the proper person to handle it.

[xsbank]

The more I think about it, don't talk to the pilots. There may be more than one crew doing it anyway and it will be better handled by the CP, assuming he cares. Talking to the pilots will not get them re-trained and if its a company culture thing, perhaps they are doing this stuff at other towns too and its time for 're-education.'

After you've talked to the CP, give it a week or so to see what happens, then, if CARS are being broken, call TC or the RCMP. The RCMP will immediately arrive at the airport and taser the crew and TC will shrug and go have coffee.

[Cat Driver]

The RCMP will immediately arrive at the airport and taser the crew and TC will shrug and go have coffee.

If the crews are real bad offenders get the Chilliwack RCMP to handle it....they will pepper spray, taser and club e'm into compliance.

[Oscar]

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[Phileas Fogg]

yeah thats brutal.

I'd go out and talk to the pilots after they landed and tell them they're not in the arctic anymore.

And exactly what is that supposed to mean?

In my experience, there's few places as unforgiving as the arctic. You operate from places that don't let you off the hook easily like the pavement down south. Also, I'm fairly certain that PCA has very few pilots with any kind of Arctic experience.

As for the aledged infractions, talk to the pilots first next time, if that doesn't meet a decent response, then as XS says, call the CP.


stl

you fly a chopper? I don't think choppers even have radios up north! (I've never heard one!!!)

[sky's the limit]

you fly a chopper? I don't think choppers even have radios up north! (I've never heard one!!!)

Lol,

I'm guilty of not turning it on up north of 60.... Sometimes.

I do have several thousand hours flying airplanes up there however.... always had the radio on.

I think you know the point I was making.


stl

[Cat Driver]

Pasco is one of the best managed companies in Canada and knowing their bosses I can guarantee that cowboys would be sent down the road.

[summitx]

Well I do not feel hasseling the pilots would be professional on my part. In most cases they are not there long and I hate it when I here folks on the radio with an emotional unload.

My observations and discussions with others on the ground do not reflect Oscar's comments however I am reassured by his responce and some pm's that have been exchanged in the last few hours.

I'm not sure what happened to my email, it was a few months ago but it was not answered. Regardless as dangerous as forums are this one seems to have given me a voice.

I can understand your defense of a company that you take allot of pride in. This is a good thing but please ensure that the reality of operations is how you state them.

I look forward to many years of safe operations from Pasco.

[shimmydampner]

Safety is all about professionalisum.

Sorry, just couldn't help myself.

[husky]

Most people that have spent some time flying around BC VFR know this is quite often how PASCO operates. Always taking priority over other traffic and very often failing to use proper pattern entry, procedures and radio calls.

It must just be company culture, and that's probably pretty hard to change.

[Captain 152]

I'm another Pasco pilot and just wanted to add my opinion. While no one at Pasco would ever do anything that we would consider unsafe, the way things are done there are definitely not always by-the-book Jazz style either. A lot of it has to do with company culture. You have to remember where Pasco came from. It's only in the last few years that the company has made the move towards being more of a regional airline rather than a seasonal bush/fishing company. You can take the pilot out of the bush but you can't take the bush out of the pilot. A lot of the captains there have flown around the coast for many a year and they do things their way. As an FO, I will always say something if I think we're doing something unsafe, but I'm not gonna try and tell whoever I'm flying with that we should cross midfield and join a downwind, coz I know that would be a losing battle. As far as the other concerns go that were brought up though, a lot of them are things that look worse from the outside. Yes, we do land with tailwinds quite often, but it's always for a good reason. For instance, at Powell River, I'd much rather land uphill on 09 with 5 kt on the tail than the other way around. At Trail, if we're coming in from Castlegar, I'd much rather take a few knots on the tail than circle in that narrow valley. Coming into Kamloops at night, I'll take the tailwind any day to land on 26 than circle around the valley between dark hills. As was mentioned earlier in this post, we always get wind information on our company frequency at airports that don't have ground advisory, so we know what's happening down there.
As far as the calls go on the VFR frequencies, I know that I for one try to always make the appropriate calls. Sometimes it is busy though and you will miss some calls but we definitely try and keep up to date on traffic.
If you still have concerns though, by all means bring it up with the pilots. I'm sure they will be very receptive and maybe be able to explain why they did things a certain way.

[HighBypass]

As captain 152 says, he will always try to make the appropriate VFR calls, thats why Pasco hires all those instructors as FO's, so that all the proper calls are made, since they are flying with captains from the bush days who have the hands and feet but dont care about making calls that much.

As far as those comments about "your not in the arctic anymore", ya at least there is pavement to land on down south, not snow + ice!

[summitx]

My point is its not that difficult to do a better job and increase the factor of safety associated with ops in these situations.

Knowone is expecting turboprop operations to be crossing mid field and flying 172 circuits. You do a 5min call to let folks know your entering the airspace. You call entering the circuit because of all the geography and line of sight issues mentioned by Oscar. You call turning final. You do not want some nubie entering the active when your 2mi back! Departures same gig call entering the active call on the roll with departure intensions call clearing before you contact center. You guys know the drill. How hard is that!

Everyone takes some tail winds sometimes but if you get in the habit of it one of these days the flow at 500 ft will be way different than the surface obs from some sensor set up by some flying club dude. Your desent profile will be way off. You gona be high and hot with a wet or icy runway I hope your having a good day and are really on the money when this happens.

You guys need to do some reading on human factors and decision making. You know the crm stuff regarless of your respect for who's teaching it is not all bull shit. Its based on sound research and statistics.

I say again ITS ALL ABOUT PROFESSIONALISM

Yikes I sound like some 400 hr instructor

[West Coast Swell]

Which airport are we talking about here? ... and yes you do sound like a 400 hour instructor and that's not a bad thing either. Learn it right the first time around and ... will not be forgotten.

However, I too land with tail winds. I also takeoff with tail winds. Does this make me an unprofessional pilot?

I hope not. Because given the situation that necessitates tailwind ops it would be the person taking off into wind that would be unprofessional.
Sterio-typing a method of operation by saying that it is wrong across the board rubs my rubarb. Better to not call a spade a spade if your playing poker.

As to your other concern, if you got a problem with something talk to a human.

[Hedley]

In the real world, ATC will frequently ask you to take off or land with some tailwind, and if you refuse, you're going to be a pretty unpopular guy, because ATC doesn't want to take the hit to disrupt the flow and change runways.

If a little bit of tailwind bothers you on a long, dry paved runway, well, you probably have more important stick & rudder deficiencies that need addressing.

[summitx]

Hedley........I agree.....read the other posts.........long dry pavement controled by atc has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

[West Coast Swell]

If we knew where you are talking about we would get a better understanding of the potential hazard!

[HuD 91gt]

Sounds like Trail, and with Castlegar right around the corner, there is alot of student pilots running around, not really knowing what they are doing, or where they are headed, radio calls would be a good thing.

[Oscar]

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[Flying Nutcracker]

Summitx,

I think, if what you are talking about refers to a problem occuring on a continous basis, you have the right to talk to someone. I think, however, if it is an isolated incident, you are going to be one busy person trying to police everybody who flies operationally in an everchanging environment.

Books are made to streamline operations, with safety in mind. But the books don't necessarily cover every single situation that you see out in the operational world, where you see different airports, with different topography and traffic scenarios.

PASCO has a long standing record of safe flying, and efficient flying as well! It comes with experience and good judgement. Airmanship is probably the word I am looking for here... Experienced pilots will do things that may seem stupid to the untrained, but perfectly normal in the day to day operation of a commercial operator.

The best thing to do... I guess is to know the regs and set a good example yourself. And keep a good lookout for PASCO!

There always is something going on behind the scenes that the spectator never sees!