No Gen Av departures. Why not YYZ?

[flyinphil]

During the snow event in YYZ yesterday, departures were restricted to Carriers only. General aviation aircraft were stopped. Can someone explain the logic in that being that most de-ice at their respective hangar?

Who specifically makes that call?

No pissing contest please, just facts..

Thanks,
Phil

[sigmet77]

I would hazard a guess that the airport authority makes the call, wanting to get their highest paying customers out in the slots that are available. Makes business sense.

[flyinphil]

Landing fees arre assessed on weight and are supposed to be without predjudice. Payment for your type allows access to the system. Air Canada isn't going to go find an alternate vendor for the service.

A few years ago, they also restricted approaches to Cat II aircraft even though Cat I approach ban limits were met. At that time, they just wanted to give those with the highest likelyhood of success first shot.

I am sure in the US, that sort of thing would violate someones rights and there would be lawsuits following.

Either way, in my opinion, it is a bad precedence and requires addressing or a darned good explanation.

[the_professor]

Either way, in my opinion, it is a bad precedence and requires addressing or a darned good explanation.

As much as it may piss the guy off in his 185 or Navajo, this is a perfectly valid way to operate the country's busiest airport during times of reduced capacity.

Why wouldn't you give priority to the method of getting the most people off the ground in the shortest amount of time under the circumstances? Isn't that the raison d'etre for big airports in the first place?

It's not bad precedent, it's common sense.

[flyinphil]

Either way, in my opinion, it is a bad precedence and requires addressing or a darned good explanation.

As much as it may piss the guy off in his 185 or Navajo, this is a perfectly valid way to operate the country's busiest airport during times of reduced capacity.

Why wouldn't you give priority to the method of getting the most people off the ground in the shortest amount of time under the circumstances? Isn't that the raison d'etre for big airports in the first place?

It's not bad precedent, it's common sense.

Yes, in soviet Russia I would agree...Lets move the masses. In North America, everyone pays to operate the system and everyone has the right to access.

How about the guy in the back of his 40 million dollar G5 that can't fly but his employees can on an airline? We operate those things at a disproportionately large seat/mile cost in order to save time, not to sit at a snowy airport and watch the airlines come and go.

Now, who makes that descision in YYZ?

[cossack]

I was working north ground early yesterday afternoon when I was told that the CDF would not accept any GA aircraft as there were no slots available for them as all the slots had been reserved by the carriers. They waited until 3 Caravans had taxied all the way from K got there before telling ATC that they would not accept them and they had to go back.
Departures were not restricted by ATC, de-icing availability was.
Who those reservations were made with, I don't know.
What rate/hour they were accepting traffic, I don't know.
Were GA flights stopped by ATC? Absolutely not.
DC

[flyinphil]

Thanks for the reply cossack. When that info trickled down through the FBO, we were told "the aircraft was closed to GA aircraft and that departures were airline only". Just a communication failure by the sounds of it. At least I know who to call next time there are similar comments.

[the_professor]

Yes, in soviet Russia I would agree...Lets move the masses. In North America, everyone pays to operate the system and everyone has the right to access.

How about the guy in the back of his 40 million dollar G5 that can't fly but his employees can on an airline? We operate those things at a disproportionately large seat/mile cost in order to save time, not to sit at a snowy airport and watch the airlines come and go.

Now, who makes that descision in YYZ?

The cost of the airplane has nothing to do with it.

What makes more sense in terms of service -- launching 10 aircraft, each with 150-350 pax on board, or launching 5 bizjets and 5 airliners?

You want to get 1,500-2,500 people moving in that time frame, or 700? How about asking the people on those planes -- they're the ones who paid the AIF that funds the airport.

[flyinphil]

OK professor, I wasn't aware that your control preference was based on the number of seats available. That too is good to know although, I have always been told that had nothing to do with it. Do you sort the airliners by size for release then or check their loads to determine who is moving more people? I also thought my $1700.00 landing fee in YYZ paid for a portion of those improvements or maybe even a salary or two? Maybe the salaries come out of the terminal and enroute fees..

Either way, YOUR preference and priority has been clearly stated.

[kevenv]

I also thought my $1700.00 landing fee in YYZ paid for a portion of those improvements or maybe even a salary or two? Maybe the salaries come out of the terminal and enroute fees..

Terminal and enroute fees are paid to NavCanada, AIF money is the airports' alone. Your landing fee has nothing to do with ATC. I would suggest the next time this happens you call the duty airport manager for an explanation. I am a bit surprised that your FBO didn't offer you a phone number, I would bet money they know who to call.

[flyinphil]

Thanks kevenv.

[justplanecrazy]

I second that and no we don't control according to seat numbers. As cossack said, it had nothing to do with ATC.

[FamilyGuy]

[quote="the_professor
The cost of the airplane has nothing to do with it.

What makes more sense in terms of service -- launching 10 aircraft, each with 150-350 pax on board, or launching 5 bizjets and 5 airliners?

quote]

Ignore all of the above.

ATC is first come first served - period.

Contact the APM.