Perimeter

CYQT · Post by **CYQT** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:13 pm

On the Perimeter aviation website it lists a requirment of 250 hours for the first officer position. Do they actually hire pilots with this experience? what are the realistic requirements. thanks.

... but then again if i dont get in at perimeter, with 250 hours im more than qualified for jazz.

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:06 pm

If you have 250hrs, you'll go onto the ramp. Current ramp time is probably 18-24 months. It varies so it's difficult to say exactly.

Captain Crunch · Post by **Captain Crunch** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:57 pm

250 for the ramp? wtf...
who would do that?
thats bullshit
where has that ever got anyone?

dangerous · Post by **dangerous** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:06 am

What kind of time do they want to see for direct entry FOs?

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:44 am

where has that ever got anyone?

Into the left seat of a multi-turbine.

My understanding is everyone goes on the ramp... Maybe if you showed up with a PPC and more time you could go DEFO. C-HRIS knows better than me for sure though.

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:13 am

dangerous wrote:What kind of time do they want to see for direct entry FOs?

We have hired quite a few DEFO recently, all having around 1200-1500+hrs with operational experience, ranging from floats, navajos, pc12. It looks like we are stopping this for now though, as the last groundschool was all rampies. But I don't know for sure. It doesn't hurt to send in a resume and see if we are still hiring.

CYQT · Post by **CYQT** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:11 pm

so are the chances of being hired on the ramp with 250 hours pretty slim?

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:19 pm

so are the chances of being hired on the ramp with 250 hours pretty slim?

No you would probably get a ramp job at 250hrs then wait about 2 years + (think the # 1 is around 25 months these days). Then you get a shot at right seat, but first you have to please your ramp supervisor and pass and interview to get the nod to go right seat.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:58 am

The images I get when reading this thread are going to give me nightmares tonight...

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:31 am

Captain Crunch wrote:250 for the ramp? wtf...
who would do that?
thats bullshit
where has that ever got anyone?

umm....a flying position

who would do that? well, i did...and i dont regret it. other than dealing with winter weather i'm in the best possible position for a low timer.

well, not so low anymore

sakism · Post by **sakism** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:32 pm

With the industry the way it is right now, intentionally getting yourself into a 2 year gig on the ramp is absoulutely ludicrous.

My company has hired at least five people with 250 hours in the last 4 months for a right seat gig.

Mind you, they missed out on the Metro and exotic destinations like Shamattawa.....

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:47 pm

sakism wrote:With the industry the way it is right now, intentionally getting yourself into a 2 year gig on the ramp is absoulutely ludicrous.

My company has hired at least five people with 250 hours in the last 4 months for a right seat gig.

Mind you, they missed out on the Metro and exotic destinations like Shamattawa.....

Okay but not every 250 guy is gauranteed a spot with companies like yours or mine...

So in the mean time, go work the ramp...and keep looking while you're on the ramp. at least that way, if you dont find anything 4 months in, you're still 4 months closer to a seat, as opposed to not being any closer by NOT workin the ramp

I dont know why its so difficult for people to understand that.

I see so many people say "@#$! the ramp" because there are SOOO many jobs for 250 hour pilots these days. There isn't ALL that many. And there are more 250 hours guys than there are 250 hr jobs.

Do the math guys...and use some common sense. As I already said, work the ramp if you cant find a direct entry job, doesn't mean you cant look while you're working.

Anyways, good luck in your searches 250 hour guys...

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:29 pm

So in the mean time, go work the ramp...and keep looking while you're on the ramp.

Excellent advice. I have already seen this tactic work for several guys. They got a ramp job, with a timeline of around 18 months to right seat, and looked around (and kept in touch with former classmates) in the meantime. They ended up getting a direct right seat in a different company in less than six months. I guess the only down side would be, if you could work a more profitable part time job to pay down the debt instead of working the ramp before going right seat.

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:30 pm

As some people say, it's easier to find a job when you don't need one...

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:32 pm

thats how i got a seat...

i worked the ramp for one company for 8 months...then got hired to fly for another company...

synthpro · Post by **synthpro** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:45 pm

Here's the deal...

Working the ramp is a complete waist. It gains you very little knowledge in the industry, its extremely hard work... the thought of doing it for two years... is completely dumb finding.

For all you low time guys... I'm telling you... don't waist your time in this gig... not during these times. You are Pilots... not Blue Collars. Promises are just that... promises nothing more. Imagine you bust your ass for 1 year... and than boom... you get in an argument with one of the new Bosses.... Or another 911 happens and the industry goes to shit. Imagine???.... Shit happens... so you gotta cover your bases.

Perimeter, Air Tindi, Air Inuit, Wassaya... these are all great company's... bur waaaaaaay too big for a 250 hour time guy. So dont bother.

If I was you... I'd be looking at the smaller companies. ., Max Air, Aero Pro (Quebec Comapanies). FNT (Manitoba... even though its a shitty company), Slave Aviation, this small Athabasca outfit I went to visit a year ago (both in Alberta) and a gazillion other small outfits like that.

They hire 200 hour guys all the time. But they aren't organized enough to keep your resumes on file... so for these small outfits, its really good to show up in person.

So all this to say.... dont waist too much of your time with the mid size outfits... its the even smaller ones you have to target.

Laterz....

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:08 pm

synthpro wrote:Here's the deal...

Working the ramp is a complete waist. It gains you very little knowledge in the industry, its extremely hard work... the thought of doing it for two years... is completely dumb finding.
For all you low time guys... I'm telling you... don't waist your time in this gig... not during these times. You are Pilots... not Blue Collars. Promises are just that... promises nothing more. Imagine you bust your ass for 1 year... and than boom... you get in an argument with one of the new Bosses.... Or another 911 happens and the industry goes to shit. Imagine???.... Shit happens... so you gotta cover your bases.

Perimeter, Air Tindi, Air Inuit, Wassaya... these are all great company's... bur waaaaaaay too big for a 250 hour time guy. So dont bother.

If I was you... I'd be looking at the smaller companies. ., Max Air, Aero Pro (Quebec Comapanies). FNT (Manitoba... even though its a shitty company), Slave Aviation, this small Athabasca outfit I went to visit a year ago (both in Alberta) and a gazillion other small outfits like that.

They hire 200 hour guys all the time. But they aren't organized enough to keep your resumes on file... so for these small outfits, its really good to show up in person.

So all this to say.... dont waist too much of your time with the mid size outfits... its the even smaller ones you have to target.

Laterz....

*sigh*

please read my last 2 posts.....

rex sterling · Post by **rex sterling** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:57 pm

flying for dollars.....some people just don't get it. 250 hours is not a lot of time. Gotta get your feet wet somehow!

Synthpro, you listed off some great companies there...but you know what...all of their pilots are blue collar....and all started on the ramp!

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:51 pm

Obviously, synthro has no clue about how this industry works.

ski_bum · Post by **ski_bum** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:49 pm

Synthro, your the man...

synthpro · Post by **synthpro** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:33 am

I totaly understand how the industry works.

One company, I worked as a manager for 3 years. All they did was give me promises, nothing else. So then i said @#$! this and applied for PILOT positions elsewere, and finally got a break. None of this NON Pilot bullshit. Wasent about to get burnt a second time.

You work the ramp for three years, and your fate is too much in other peoples hands. If you get into an argument with someone, or someone doesnt like you for whatever reason... than all of that time... has pretty much gone waisted.

The knowledge I gained as a ground ops manager for this company... taught me very very little about how to fly the plane I'm flying now.

Basicly what I'm saying.... is... 5 years ago... sure... go work the ramp for you low timers. But now.... today... shouldn't even think about it.

Supply and Demand mother Fucker...

[/quote]

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:15 am

sakism wrote:Mind you, they missed out on the Metro and exotic destinations like Shamattawa.....

The Shamattawa remark, I let that one slide, but why do you have to be so mean about the Metro?

ditshisturber · Post by **ditshisturber** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:58 am

synthpro wrote:I totaly understand how the industry works.

One company, I worked as a manager for 3 years. All they did was give me promises, nothing else. So then i said @#$! this and applied for PILOT positions elsewere, and finally got a break. None of this NON Pilot bullshit. Wasent about to get burnt a second time.

You work the ramp for three years, and your fate is too much in other peoples hands. If you get into an argument with someone, or someone doesnt like you for whatever reason... than all of that time... has pretty much gone waisted.

The knowledge I gained as a ground ops manager for this company... taught me very very little about how to fly the plane I'm flying now.

Basicly what I'm saying.... is... 5 years ago... sure... go work the ramp for you low timers. But now.... today... shouldn't even think about it.

Supply and Demand mother Fucker...

[/quote]

So, did you tell your interviewer this too? Sounding pretty bitter about your previous experience. How do you think that will reflect for your future? This is a very small industry and people remember that kind of stuff.

You said it yourself:
"The knowledge I gained as a ground ops manager for this company... taught me very very little about how to fly the plane I'm flying now." If you wanted to fly in the beginning, you would have stayed away from a management position. More times than not: Pilots and management don't mix!

Sorry, no sympathy here. I did it the hard way too, but it got me to where I am today.

synthpro · Post by **synthpro** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:39 am

Good for you...

And no... I never did say that in an interview. Last I checked... this is an annonymous forum... no?

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:06 pm

Hiring DEFOs when you have guys waiting on the ramp?

Hello! Are you guys listening? 250 hours is plenty of time to pull knobs in a twin or a single. In Europe you'd be pulling those knobs on an Airbus or some fat turboprop. I met an FO on a BA 747 who had been working for them for 5 years from college!

To say you need to "prove yourself" on the ramp is pure garbage. Yes, some of you got flying after working on the ramp. Good for you. You were used! If you'd gone somewhere and actually flown instead of playing it safe on the ramp you would be the DEFOs or the DECs they are hiring!

Why do you think they hire pilots to work the ramp? Because it is a low-skill job that otherwise they would never get 'smart' (boy do I use that with a grain of salt!) guys to work there who had a good attitude and a respect for aircraft who would do it for a sack of peanuts and a 'promise.'

Hiring DEFOs when there are guys working the ramp? Why do you stand for it? You should all quit en masse. Chumps!

Pilots are a dime a dozen and always will be. Good ramp guys and good dispatchers are worth their weight in gold. That's why they keep you on the ramp as long as possible. You get good at it and its more of a pain to hire a newbie for the ramp than a DEFO!!!!!

Geez you guys, give your heads a shake. We're riding the very top of a crest and this wave could break with just one more economic shock. If you don't get jobs soon you will all be working the ramp for the next 5 years. While you're beavering away at the ramp, the guys who just got their licenses are beating the bush for real work while you hump bags.

Don't say I didn't try and warn you.