Captains – All Aircraft: Year #1 $30,000.00 / annum

[flight instructor]

30.000$ before tax, for multi turbine captain, a joke?

That' s 2000$ a month after tax right?

Who said we had a pilot shortage?

I feel sad, really.

I wouldn' t consider this position at less than 65000$ a year.

[flight instructor]

You can live in Thunder bay with a better salary (flying a C172!!!):

Requirements: Class 3 Instructor Rating or better.
Pay: $20,000 base (negotiable) plus flight hour pay ($25/hr)
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=37094

[Jeremy]

Umm you missed some there.....

Year #1 $30,000.00 / annum base plus 0.10/ mile;

Guessing that a MU2 cruises around 260kts, that's approx 300mph

Even at 600hrs/year..which is probably a low estimate, that's 180000 miles...at $0.10, that's an extra $18 000!

Not too bad at all.

[F/O Crunch]

Might as well keep your name as flight instructor then and get on with your life eh?

[Lurch]

Might as well keep your name as flight instructor then and get on with your life eh?

It's hard racking up mileage flying around the circuit in a C172

[flight instructor]

Might as well keep your name as flight instructor then and get on with your life eh?

Yep

[flight instructor]

It's hard racking up mileage flying around the circuit in a C172

You don' t have to "rack up" mileage, you are paid 25$ an HOUR in addition to the base salary.

[Lurch]

It's hard racking up mileage flying around the circuit in a C172

You don' t have to "rack up" mileage, you are paid 25$ an HOUR in addition to the base salary.

[Stan_Cooper]

50 hours on the MU-2 in two weeks:

$2700

50 hours on the 172 in two weeks:

$2020

Both comfortable wages for YQT... Not really much to compare though.

[CJ3PILOT]

30.000$ before tax, for multi turbine captain, a joke?

That' s 2000$ a month after tax right?

Who said we had a pilot shortage?

I feel sad, really.

I wouldn' t consider this position at less than 65000$ a year.

There is a pilot shortage but I think it is a experince pilot shortage.And I bet this guy has 500 resumes already from 200 hour pilots.And I wish all of them luck in getting the job.You have to start somewhere right.

[Schlem]

Tier Two First Officer: greater than 1500 TT and 500 MPIC
all aircraft types: $30,000/annum base plus mileage

So the Captain, who is flying with the "experienced" F/O(most likely a former instructor with no 703 experience), makes the same base salary... very nice !

[twotter]

So, I guess this means that the starting wage of $38,000 at AC is OK?

Just a thought..

[flight instructor]

So, I guess this means that the starting wage of $38,000 at AC is OK?

Absolutely right, here you are. From this point of vue it makes it acceptable.

[flight instructor]

50 hours on the MU-2 in two weeks:

$2700

50 hours on the 172 in two weeks:

$2020

After having done the math:

50 hours on the MU2 (30000 base +36000 (50 hours within 2 weeks: 1200 hours a year) mileage according to JEREMY):
1900$ 2 weeks after tax.

50 hours on the C172 (20000 base+25$ an hour):
2000$ 2 weeks after tax.

You are more paid flying CCTS with the C172 than beeing a multi turbine captain flying medevac.

This is a fact.

[jetway]

last time I saw a C-172 flying in 2miles, -SN, 360 15G27.. or for that matter any kind of weather... well.... I never have seen them fly in that weather... can't make $ if you don't fly, right? Every flight instructor recalls sitting there listening to other planes in the murk... and having no control over the 2 weeks of shit weather. Those 30G pilots are taking off and making .10 a mile... at around 8000 miles every 2 weeks on average .

PS: it's a C-172!!!!!..if you are making 2 G every two weeks on the 172 because you think you deserve 65 G a year on a turbine, have pity on the METurb Captain, and won't settle for anything less, that's cool. I just hope your destination airport can be something other than your departure airport once in a while (circuits anyone)
can I book my grandkids intro flight with you? see you in 15 years, when you will STILL be making 2 g a week and paying for your own dental, medical and renewals...Congrats on the excellent PDM.

[sakism]

PS: it's a C-172!!!!!..if you are making 2 G every two weeks on the 172 because you think you deserve 65 G a year on a turbine, have pity on the METurb Captain, and won't settle for anything less, that's cool. I just hope your destination airport can be something other than your departure airport once in a while (circuits anyone)
can I book my grandkids intro flight with you? see you in 15 years, when you will STILL be making 2 g a week and paying for your own dental, medical and renewals...Congrats on the excellent PDM.

So people should be happy with lower pay because the job is more interesting?

That is ridiculous.

The very fact that instructors don't have to go out in marginal weather and don't have to be out in the middle of the night, etc is why they should not be making more than the Turbine captain being discussed here.

[flight instructor]

Sakism:

That' s exactly my point.

Jetway:

Sorry, I din' t want to hurt any feelings. If you work for this company, in Thunder Bay, then I understand you. But I still beleive that you deserve 65000 a year minimum.
I know that the turbine experience will help for the next step, if the next step wanted is flying jet. But that' s not a reason to take advantage of it.
This company in Thunder Bay is not the worse I was told. But some others company pay really better. I just wanted to speak up about the low wage concerning one of the most challenging job on the market: medevac captain.
Flight Instructor is a job I love. I didn' t mean that it 's better than yours, even if my pay is higher, it was not my point, sorry about the miscommunication.

Flight Instructor.

[bob sacamano]

So, I guess this means that the starting wage of $38,000 at AC is OK?

Just a thought..

Nothing to think about, starting pay at AC is, well...

[Stan_Cooper]

After having done the math:

50 hours on the MU2 (30000 base +36000 (50 hours within 2 weeks: 1200 hours a year) mileage according to JEREMY):
1900$ 2 weeks after tax.

50 hours on the C172 (20000 base+25$ an hour):
2000$ 2 weeks after tax.

You are more paid flying CCTS with the C172 than beeing a multi turbine captain flying medevac.

This is a fact.

*shrugs* You're doing Enron accounting to come up with "fact". 50 hours is higher than average for two weeks of flying, but the airplane goes a lot faster than 250 miles per hours, so the hourly flight rate is more than 25 bucks an hour. Also, the payscale includes a "detention" rate for when the crew's sitting around at work doing nothing. The $2,700 number I got comes directly from a paystub during a period with 49.8 hours of flying. It is gross wage: Pre-tax, not including per-diems.

While you're lowballing the Captain pay, you really overstated the instructor pay. 20,000 per year works out to 769.23 biweekly. Add on the hours flown (for fun we'll stick with fifty,) and the gross wage is 2019.23. Unless your tax rate is one percent you're gonna be taking home quite a bit less than 2000 every two weeks; even when you're flying your balls off in that 172.

Oh, and having instructed for a few hundred hours, I would hazard a guess that it will be nearly impossible to instruct more than fifteen hours a week here in YQT at a small FTU.

Finally, why are we even comparing these two jobs? Yes, in YQT there are one or two senior instructors (at confed) making a lot more than the numbers we're talking about, but they're doing completely different jobs. If you really want to figure out how Thunder stacks up, you should be comparing it to first year captains flying similar types at other companies in the area.

[bcflyer]

But some others company pay really better. I just wanted to speak up about the low wage concerning one of the most challenging job on the market: medevac captain.

Flight Instructor.

First thing, I'd like to know what jobs you are talking about that pay "really better" than about 50k to START on a small turbine twin without having to live in the middle of nowhere and be gone for weeks at a time. Secondly, your comment about medevac captain somehow being more challenging than regular flying is very misleading. Other than the occasional altitude restriction there is absolutely no difference in the way you fly the plane. Its the same as being a charter guy on call.

[flight instructor]

Stan: ok i may be wrong on the accounting.

BC Flyer:

Not agree. You have to fly upnorth, land on a gravel strip most of the time, you have to fly faster, especially during the descent , the normal speed is near the barber pole. And you have some more pressure. You will think twice before saying: I cannot go, the weather is too bad.

[bcflyer]

Stan: ok i may be wrong on the accounting.

BC Flyer:

Not agree. You have to fly upnorth, land on a gravel strip most of the time, you have to fly faster, especially during the descent , the normal speed is near the barber pole. And you have some more pressure. You will think twice before saying: I cannot go, the weather is too bad.

I'm quite curious as to whether or not you have actually ever done a medevac or even flown a turbine twin. I'm going to guess by your statements that you haven't. Please read on and you'll see what is really happening in the medevac world.

STRIPS
There are a ton of pilots that land on gravel strips everyday up "north." (by the way there are alot of medevacs that don't go anywhere near a gravel strip) Charters, skeds etc all use the same gravel runways. There are no special "medevac only" strips around that are more difficult to land on.

SPEEDS
You don't fly any faster doing a medevac than you do on a regular charter. During decent you are always on the barberpole flying turbine twins (unless there is a mitigating factor like turbulence etc) so there is no difference there

PRESSURES
I'm not sure how the rest of the country does it but when I flew medevac in Ont, medcom would page the company and tell them they had a trip. There was no mention of the condition of the patient whatsoever. The captain made the decision as to whether they can do the trip based solely on the weather available to him. There is no more pressure a medevac captain to get in than there is on any other captain flying around up north. (in fact quite often you are pressured more by the regular customers that you ever are on a medevac.) Your job is to fly the plane.. period. There are medics, nurses, doctors etc to take care of the patient. You have to remove yourself from what is going on in the back and do your job.

I flew for the company we are talking about for 5 yrs doing strictly charters and medevacs and while I would say they can be much more rewarding, medevacs certainly aren't any harder than a standard charter.

[sky's the limit]

Stan: ok i may be wrong on the accounting.

BC Flyer:

Not agree. You have to fly upnorth, land on a gravel strip most of the time, you have to fly faster, especially during the descent , the normal speed is near the barber pole. And you have some more pressure. You will think twice before saying: I cannot go, the weather is too bad.

I'm with BCFlyer on this one.


Flying a Medivac is not any different/more challenging than most other types of flying, and much less so than some.

If you "think twice" about making weather calls, or fly the machine faster than the AFM allows, you're an idiot(not you in particular) and not cut out to be making those decisions. There are MANY applications where you utilize the full flight envelope of the a/c, Medivac is NOT one them.




stl

[BTD]

Agreed. Medevac flying is no more difficult than sched flying. (My job right now is about 95% medevac).

There is often less pressure. As has been said, as pilots, we don't know what is wrong with the patient when leaving to pick them up. If we don't get in due to weather it doesn't delay the rest of our day like it could for sched flights. We can simply return to base or go somewhere else if there is another call.

The only thing about medevac flying is that you tend to do more night flying than some sched operators. Reserves at night are...well.. different the first few times you do it. But 2 crew, Radar Alt, working PAPIs and it can be done quite safely.

BTD

[F/O Crunch]

BC Flyer:

Not agree. You have to fly upnorth, land on a gravel strip most of the time, you have to fly faster, especially during the descent , the normal speed is near the barber pole. And you have some more pressure. You will think twice before saying: I cannot go, the weather is too bad.

As long as you stop trying to convince everyone this job blows, you won't have to worry about having to do it yourself...

Shibby!
foc