Armstrong crash?

thecaptain · Post by **thecaptain** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:11 pm

Listening to 67 all day today... some rescue 323 flying around and pulling folks out of a crash? GETK I think was the reg. Anyone know what happened, everyone ok? I hope everyone is alright.

Chaffey · Post by **Chaffey** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:17 pm

Not too sure..Im sure we heard the same things. I guess there was 3. I think everyone survived. One broke a Femur. Last I heard they were tobaganing people out of the location. I hope they are alright too

AEROMONKEY · Post by **AEROMONKEY** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:49 pm

Air Bravo just brought a couple guys from the plane to YQT seemed ok...heard that a guy had a broken femur...still in Armstrong. They just left again heading back to Armstrong.

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:14 pm

CADORS Number: 2007O2511 Reporting Region: Ontario

Occurrence InformationOccurrence Type: Incident Occurrence Date: 2007/11/30
Occurrence Time: 1845 Z Day Or Night: day-time
Fatalities: 0 Injuries: 0

Canadian Aerodrome ID: Aerodrome Name:
Occurrence Location: vicinity of Armstrong Province: Ontario
Country: CANADA World Area: North America

Reported By: NAV CANADA AOR Number:
TSB Class Of Investigation: TSB Occurrence No.:
Event InformationMissing aircraft
Aircraft InformationFlight #:
Aircraft Category: Aeroplane Country of Registration: CANADA
Make: AERO COMMANDER Model: 500B
Year Built: 1961 Amateur Built: No
Engine Make: AVCO LYCOMING Engine Model: IO-540-B1A5
Engine Type: Reciprocating Gear Type: Land
Phase of Flight: Unknown Damage: Unknown
Owner: HICKS & LAWRENCE LIMITED Operator: HICKS & LAWRENCE LIMITED (542)
Operator Type: Commercial

Detail InformationUser Name: Donaldson, John
Date: 2007/11/30
Further Action Required: Yes
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: The Hicks & Lawrence Limited Aero Commander 500 aircraft was on a [type of flight unknown] flight from [origin unknown] to [destination unknown]. The operator advised NAV CANADA staff that the aircraft was missing. An ELT signal was picked up in the Armstrong area. J.R.C.C. Trenton staff advised. Three (3) S.O.B.

Strega · Post by **Strega** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:38 pm

If anyone knows who was on board,, PM me

flyincanuck · Post by **flyincanuck** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:05 pm

all are okay

sissyphus · Post by **sissyphus** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:40 pm

Saw hercs dropping flares over the site around 7ish. Thought it was UFO's at first. Glad to hear everyone is alive.

water wings · Post by **water wings** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:59 am

glad to hear all ok. Any idea on cause? Armstrong is notorious for their runway being a skating rink.
Very happy that everyone is more or less OK.. we heard them take off at about 1145 AM, but i just read they were getting people out at 7 PM? it was -24 yesterday. eeek!

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:04 am

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... hub=Canada

no details, really, just the over all good ending.

LostinRotation · Post by **LostinRotation** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:48 am

Strega wrote:If anyone knows who was on board,, PM me

same please.

-=0=LiR=0=-

onspeed · Post by **onspeed** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:57 am

Glad to hear all are going to be okay, hicks was an awesome place to work with great people.

http://www.tbsource.com/Localnews/index.asp?cid=102453

onspeed · Post by **onspeed** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:03 am

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007 ... 37-cp.html

AEROMONKEY · Post by **AEROMONKEY** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:05 pm

They we're on a trip from Dryden to Geraldton

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:09 pm

They, are three very lucky lads. Anytime you "dead stick" into the bush, and get away with it, you are one lucky dude, indeed. Very good outcome to what, so easily could have been a very sad day. Slap on the back to the rescue unit for their quick action. Finding a downed aircraft in the bush, and getting everybody out in one piece, the same day, is nothing short of a miracle!

EatSleepFly · Post by **EatSleepFly** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:08 pm

how do you lose BOTH engines other than fuel exhaustion, and still how do you NOT have time to make a mayday call before you go down in the bush.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:45 pm

Clunk....I lost both engines on a Navajo one night IFR and it was only pure luck I found a hole over Brandon to spiral down through...the cause was ice crystals in the fuel lines gradually blocked the fuel lines lost the right engine and about fifteen minutes later the left engine.

Once again an airplane that had been stored in a hangar with water in the fuel system.....and you can't drain it at below freezing temps.

Strega · Post by **Strega** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:18 pm

clunckdriver wrote:EatSleepFly, you asked a question so I will answer you, nothing I may say in any way refers to this crash. {1} Aircraft was used for fire season , has sat in VERY cold and fluctuating temps for some time, could have had a crap load of water in solid form in the tanks, the best way to get this out in low temps is put in some Methel Hydrate and wait 12 hours and drain till its clear fuel.{2} Many aircraft flown in Summer only dont have the breather tubes drilled or insulated, if not drilled and you get ice in the breather you will blow the prop seals and down you go.{3} If an aircraft has single grade Summer oil it may get "coring" in the oil cooler, many do not have a by pass system, so again no lube and down you go again.{4}Prop seals and other seals and gaskets that have been cold soaked for some time without a long pre heat period have a distressing habit of letting go. Im sure many of the high time piston pilots on this forum can come up with a lot more resons as to why a twin can become a glider real fast!

BS BS and more BS

I will wait to hear from my friends what happened....
I-S-M,,,, I thank the lord that fate has not been your hunter...

kingeddie · Post by **kingeddie** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:40 pm

A note we always praise the Sar Techs .. But hats off to my fellow OMNR astar crews Gord And Pat who pulled the boys out after dark offsite at an unlit crash site to keep the boys from spending the night in the deep freeze

Above and beyond

Eddie

JigglyBus · Post by **JigglyBus** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:42 pm

Not speculating in any way what happenned in this incident, however....

AC500's have effectively only one gas tank. There are several interconnected bladder tanks, but they all lead into the same sump, and there is no way to cross feed. If you get a leak, or a serious blockage you're kinda SOL.

Doesn't happen very often, but it can.

Northern Skies · Post by **Northern Skies** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:06 am

Does anyone have information about the pilots?

A friend of mine is flying AC500 out of dryden for hicks.

please PM

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:01 pm

To Gord and Pat....the beer's always cold here, and your money is no good!

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:13 pm

.{3} If an aircraft has single grade Summer oil it may get "coring" in the oil cooler, many do not have a by pass system, so again no lube and down you go again.

Clunckdriver knows of what he speaks.

Time for the newbies to learn about the "pour point" of oil ... if
it gets colder than that (ie in the cooler) it congeals.

In the winter, you are foolish not to run a multi-grade oil in
the winter. In particular, Aeroshell 15w50 has a pour point
of -42C. Straight grade oils will congeal at higher temps
than that.

http://www.shell.com/static//ca-en/down ... iation.pdf

Northern Skies · Post by **Northern Skies** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:02 pm

I found out, It was my friend who was injured.

He is one of the most professional, safe pilots I know. I heard that those involved have nothing but praise for the way he handled the situation.

I am very glad to hear how everything turned out. A double engine failure in the bush in winter is not something I would wish pon my worst enemy.

station60 · Post by **station60** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:21 pm

EatSleepFly wrote:how do you lose BOTH engines other than fuel exhaustion, and still how do you NOT have time to make a mayday call before you go down in the bush.

EatSleepFly, you are such a dickhead. Were you there? Do you know what happened? It's not like these pilots wanted to crash... it's really easy to place blame and say "why did you do this" or "why didn't you do that" after the fact. Until you're in that situation, STFU.

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:17 am

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they did make a Mayday call but being north of Armstrong, Ontario no one could here it. Of course if your from the Toronto area you would have a very hard time comprehending this so why not just keep your lame comments to yourself!! The guys involved are all personal friends of mine as well as coworkers and I can assure you that professionalism is alive and well with this group!!

Just very glad to hear such a great outcome!! Looking forward to having a beer with them real soon!