Instructing while Flying for a 703 Ops ??

[Grey_Wolf]

Could Someone who holds a valid Instructor Rating teach "on the side" while they are hired to work in a 703 operation?

I've heard different interpretations with no definitive answers.

I've heard Yes, you can work both without any limitations, because a FTU works under the 400/600 series as opposed to a 700 series.

I've heard Yes, you can do both as long as your respecting the "duty day" regs as set out by the CARs [700.15] (1200hrs in 365 days, 300 hours in 90 days, etc ...)

and last but not least, The simple NO! due to the "duty day'' regs again


Hence, before I go to the hassle of driving 3 hours to talk to someone at a TC Office, I taught I would run it by the AvCan Community. Anyone know for sure; I'm in the process of trying to 'figure' the CARs as we speak.

Thanks & Regards

G_W

[trey kule]

I've heard Yes, you can do both as long as your respecting the "duty day" regs as set out by the CARs (1200hrs in 365 days, 900 hours in 180, etc ...)

Been a while since I had anything to do with Canadian duty days, but the duty day used to have nothing to do with the flight hours

[Grey_Wolf]

Flight Time Limitations

700.15 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no air operator shall assign a flight crew member for flight time, and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment, if the flight crew member's total flight time in all flights conducted by the flight crew member will, as a result, exceed

(a) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days;

(b) 300 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

(c) 120 hours in any 30 consecutive days or, in the case of a flight crew member on call, 100 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

(d) where the flight is conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 using an aircraft other than a helicopter, 40 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

(e) where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3, or is conducted using a helicopter, 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days; or

(f) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR flights, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours.

(2) An air operator may assign a flight crew member for flight time, and a flight crew member may accept such an assignment, where the flight crew member's flight time will, as a result, exceed the flight time referred to in subsection (1) if

(a) the increase in flight time is authorized in the air operator's air operator certificate; and

(b) the air operator and the flight crew member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

(3) Subject to Section 700.17, a flight crew member who reaches a flight time limitation established by this Section is deemed to be fatigued and shall not continue on flight duty or be reassigned to flight duty until such time as the flight crew member has had the rest period required by Section 700.16 or 700.19.

Flight Duty Time Limitations and Rest Periods

700.16 (1) Subject to subsections (5) and (7), no air operator shall assign a flight crew member for flight duty time, and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment, if the flight crew member's flight duty time will, as a result, exceed 14 consecutive hours in any 24 consecutive hours. Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 using an aircraft other than a helicopter, flight duty time shall include 15 minutes for post-flight duties.

(2) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 using an aircraft other than a helicopter or a DeHavilland DHC-6 aircraft pursuant to the Commercial Air Service Standards, a flight crew member shall receive at least 24 consecutive hours free from flight duty following 3 consecutive flight duty time assignments that exceed 12 consecutive hours unless the flight crew member has received at least 24 consecutive hours free from flight duty between each flight duty time assignment.

(3) Following a flight duty time assignment, an air operator shall provide a flight crew member with the minimum rest period and any additional rest period required by this Part.

(4) A flight crew member shall use a rest period provided pursuant to subsection (3) and Section 700.19 to obtain the necessary rest and shall be adequately rested prior to reporting for flight duty.

(5) Where flight duty time includes a rest period, flight duty time may be extended beyond the maximum flight duty time referred to in subsection (1) by one-half the length of the rest period referred to in paragraph (b), to a maximum of 3 hours, if

(a) the air operator provides the flight crew member with advance notice of the extension of flight duty time;

(b) the air operator provides the flight crew member with a rest period of at least 4 consecutive hours in suitable accommodation; and

(c) the flight crew member's rest is not interrupted by the air operator during the rest period.

(6) The minimum rest period following flight duty time referred to in subsection (5) and prior to the next flight duty time shall be increased by an amount at least equal to the extension to the flight duty time.

(7) An air operator may assign a flight crew member for flight duty time, and a flight crew member may accept such an assignment, where the flight crew member's flight duty time will, as a result, exceed the flight duty time referred to in subsection (1) if

(a) the increase in flight duty time is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

(b) the air operator and the flight crew member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

Maybe I sould re-word the question to ask if the time accumulated whilst instructing would count toward the CAR 700.15 reg?

[dangerous]

To me it seems like ALL flight time counts towards the flight time limits. However it doesn't seem like instructor time counts towards the flight duty time limits. But I'm no lawyer so who knows.

[Grey_Wolf]

To me it seems like ALL flight time counts towards the flight time limits. However it doesn't seem like instructor time counts towards the flight duty time limits. But I'm no lawyer so who knows.

At first glance it would seem that way, the wording that is getting me is ...

if the flight crew member's total flight time in all flights conducted by the flight crew member will

Which raises the question:
"Are you a Flight Crew Member when your instructing?"

TC's definition of "Flight Crew Member"

"flight crew member" - means a crew member assigned to act as pilot or flight engineer of an aircraft during flight time; (membre d'équipage de conduite)

Guess that means YES !

Any other interpretations ?

[dangerous]

Once you've reached those max times, you can't fly in a part 7 operation anymore. However you can still fly privately or instruct all you want. There are no limitations for private flying or instructing. Like I said before, ALL flight time you do counts towards your CARs part 7 limits.

[Grey_Wolf]

Thanks Dangerous As for the flight time counting towards the 700 series; that's what I was weery of.

The situation that I'm finding myself in, is that it's been brutally slow, work wise for us in the last little while. The addition of an additional F/O at our base doesn't help either; the workload present isn't enough to support all of us employed there. Sure we will get paid 'minimums' but the time in the logbook will remain the same. The plan was originally to bring additional staff and aircraft in ... but that hasn't happened yet. To top it all off, I've been waiting for a call from Dispatch for the last 3 weeks. (granted 9 of those days were scheduled time off).

If I was instructing, at least I'd be flying .....


So Folks, What should I do ?

- Call/Email the CP and ask what the plans are?
- Ask the CP for a transfer to a busier base?
- Stay at my present base and do Both, and explain to the CP why?
- Wait it out till the New Year (Feb-March)? And see what happens?
- Dust off the Resume? Time to move on?

[THEICEMAN]

Of course you can...I know two instructors that fly for a 703 with King Air, & instruct.

[PTP]

I work under 704/705 and still instruct. Just watch your hours each month. The hard one not to break is the 300 in 90 days.

Another consideration is what kind of instructing would you be doing? I don't think it's fair to the students to take on people you won't be able to commit the proper time to. I try and only go back and to preflight tests and checkride style flights.

[Grey_Wolf]

Another consideration is what kind of instructing would you be doing? I don't think it's fair to the students to take on people you won't be able to commit the proper time to. I try and only go back and to preflight tests and checkride style flights.

That has also crossed my mind, IF, I was to go back to instructing, it would be done so in a part-time basis to do "accelerated" rating(s) such as Night, Multi, and/or Single-Engine IFRs. These ratings can be hammered out in short order without having to drag it out over several months.

[rule911]

Go teach in the sim. Most 'newer' instructors want to avoid the sim to get the flying hours. You can come in, do the sim work, make guaranteeded dollars, and it has no effect on your duty time.

From what I understand, if you are using your commercial license, for hire or reward, all the time countrs towards your 1200hr limit. If you fly 1200/hr commercially and take your private plan out for fun on your off time, using the privliges of your private license, that time does not count towards your 1200 hrs.

Cheers

[200hr Wonder]

Get it strait from the horses mouth? Call TC and ask, keep calling different offices until you get the answer you want. Then get them to fax you a signed letter with the answer and you should be OK.

[dangerous]

From what I understand, if you are using your commercial license, for hire or reward, all the time countrs towards your 1200hr limit. If you fly 1200/hr commercially and take your private plan out for fun on your off time, using the privliges of your private license, that time does not count towards your 1200 hrs.

I don't think either of those statements are correct. If you are using your CPL for hire or reward, only the flight time counts towards the 1200 hr limit, not your ground time (eg: ground briefings & sim). Also, the flight time in your private airplane/glider/ultralight/balloon/whatever counts towards the 1200 hr limit.

cheers

[Ref Plus 10]

When calculating your 7, 30, and 90 day flight times, ALL flight hours are used to calculate, so if you were to teach for 35 hours in a week and your 703 company wanted you to fly for 6 hours, you couldn't do it, you'd be busting your times. AS long as you have approval from the CP of your organization, I'd say go for it