Thrill of Flying Jumbo Jets

Radical.Edward · Post by **Radical.Edward** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:58 pm

Since the time I was very young, I always thought that being in control of such a large machine would be very exhilirating, I guess because of the sheer size and the media, but I read in posts that airline flying isn't all that it's cracked up to be, do they mean the lifestyle or the flying? How much "flying" do the pilots actually do with all the technology and such? How enjoyable is it to fly these jumbo jets?

N2 · Post by N2 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:50 pm

I guess that would depend on the individual. Some may love it, others may not be so enthusiastic. One thing I do know is my sisters brother inlaw who was a senior captain for American said when he went to the airlines the fun went out the window!

With that said I'd still give my eye teeth to take a crack at it!

Lost in Saigon · Post by **Lost in Saigon** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:59 pm

Most airline pilots I know only handfly fly from T/O to 10,000' and then the last 1,000' on final. The rest of the time is it on autopilot.

We still enjoy flying, but it is a different type of flying. The challenge is to get the most out of the Flight Management System to make it as smooth and efficient as possible.

planett · Post by **planett** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:30 pm

I am lucky enough to be able to handfly or A/P as much as I want, RVSM and Cat II excepted of course. This would be harder to do in some airlines and on some types. At this stage of the game, however, it's about schedule, income, lifestye, and security, and I imagine that by the time someone gets to the 747, those are the main concerns for them too.

An airline job for me now represents an unacceptable loss of the above benefits for too long of a time to consider seriously. The real satisfaction comes from a well managed flight, good decision making, appropriate use of automation when required, and above all, teamwork.

angry inch · Post by **angry inch** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:32 pm

Saigon's avatar makes it look like flying the big iron could be very rewarding!!

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:02 pm

I've only flown jump twice on a major carrier.

Both times the Autopilot was on around 1000' on departure, and came off about 5 miles final on arrival, if that answers any of your questions.

LYNX25 · Post by **LYNX25** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:06 pm

*Cough* Cough* CANADIAN AIR FORCE *Cough* Cough*

30%-50% hours of a Civy pilot - 1,000,000,000% better flying.

unknowingly upsidedown · Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:56 pm

I would imagine one of the best parts about flying a jumbo jet is that you get to use the "hey babe, wanna see my jumbo 'jet'" line when out for the evening.

Bleed Air · Post by **Bleed Air** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:51 pm

The sad thing my skilled piloting days were when I was flying regionally without autopilot 5-6 sectors a day sometimes IMC from TO to LD.
Now flying the 747 the biggest issue is the fact that since it goes long haul, we only do 3 trips a month, thats on 6 sectors and with that come the fact you pilots that haven't had a takeoff or landing in sometimes a couple of months, or worse if they have come off leave. My airline's policy is to make maximum use of Automation, and because most guys are pretty rusty and flying into and out of a location they may not have been to in 6 months or so, most guys will put in the autopilot after they've cleaned up to flaps up on a VMC day, or right after TO on an IMC day, the lowest we can engage to AP is not below 250' after TO. Also most guys will take the autopilot out after final flaps have been selected and the AP and AT have selttled down. One thing you have to remember is that arriving after a long haul flight sometimes doesn't leave a lot of fuel left and the last thing someone wants to do after flying for 14 hours is hand fly an approach screw it up have to go around then put themselves in a very tight fuel situation where you might have to go to alternate. The company would look very dimmly on going to alternate because of a go around due to a poorly hand flown approach. The other thing is that while hand flying the workload for the other pilot is considerable increased as they have to work the radio which could involve multiple fq changes in busy airspace where perhaps the controllers first language isn't english, as well they have to maipluate the Mode control panel chaange headings and alts and reprovram the FMC as commanded by the pilot who is hand flying, as well as raising flaps and gear and monitoring what the flying pilot is doing.
So after that long winded post, no not much hand flying AP early in bad weather, AP in later on nice day and AP out on short final.
The Sim is where all the hand flying and fun stuff is done.

YVR Dude · Post by **YVR Dude** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:46 am

Great post Bleedair...I concur, and you saved me all the typing

Radical.Edward · Post by **Radical.Edward** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:32 am

Thanks for the replies guys, what about biz jets, I would guess it's the same?

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:52 pm

It's more about system management, than control manipulation, at this point.

FL_CH · Post by **FL_CH** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:59 pm

I guess it's not necessarily such a bad thing?
Sit there, enjoy the view, monitor the thing, get paid..

Apart from jetlagging and hotels of course

Good position once you're closer to retirement

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:26 pm

It's all about making good decisions that will have the best outcome...

Here is an example:

A crew are about to land at their final destination and they are not only at the end of their duty time limit but are so tired from their duty day the bags under their eyes are hanging a low as the bags between their legs.

They choose to autoland and monitor the beast....what is wrong with that?

Does that somehow make them less as pilots because they chose not to hand fly the thing?

Radical.Edward · Post by **Radical.Edward** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:22 pm

More questions

N2: was it the flying part that took the fun out?

Bleed: what aircraft did you fly regionally before?

The Sim is where all the hand flying and fun stuff is done.

Out of curiosity how does one become a sim instructor for an airline? That job would include interchanging between aircraft and sim?

Bleed, planett, yvr, twin, FL, Cat: Do you thoroughly enjoy the flights though, and were your previous piloting jobs more enjoyable with regards to the flights?

Cat

Does that somehow make them less as pilots because they chose not to hand fly the thing?

Definitely not, just making the most use of what is available.

Ed

planett · Post by **planett** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:16 pm

R.E,

I thoroughly enjoy most flights now because they are never routine, they could come any time on shift, or not at all. They are mostly north, sometimes arctic, and often east-west or USA. I go to work wanting to fly simply because that's what I do and I'm no longer overworked. Bizjets are user friendly too.

The days of 1000 hrs/year are behind me, they shaped me and made me appreciate what I have now. Believe it or not, 8-12 legs a day in a high performance tuboprop and 13 hour duty days can turn into drudgery. Still, some of my best years were spent in that environment, but it's not a retirement job. Now I do it for extra flying...........when I my services are required........when I feel like it. (The benefits of maintaining a good working relationship with non-psychopathic former employers.)

As for being a sim instructor, that usually comes with seniority, and more importantly, a knack for teaching, good IFR and A/C systems knowledge, and overall experience.

Radical.Edward · Post by **Radical.Edward** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:23 pm

planett: so you fly biz jets right now? Are the biz jets basically the same as the 747 etc. with regards to the manual flying, typically, in your case you said you have the option? Flying to the arctic in a biz jet, that's pretty random

.

Ed

Bleed Air · Post by **Bleed Air** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:53 pm

R.E

I flew Metros and 1900's and when I was flying 6 sectors a day in crap weather, I felt like I could fly them like they were on rails, now I certainly don't fell like that anymore.
I think the one thing you have to have in order the fly long haul and enjoy it, is the ability to be able to sleep whenever you get the chance. fatigue is huge, if you can't sleep in the bunk when it's your time, your screwed when you are back in the seat. If you can't sleep properly at the hotel, you are ruined from the flight home and it will take you ages to get back right when you do get home. Myself, I can pop the earplugs in put on the eyeshade and be out like a light until i'm woke up for my turn to fly (monitor Autopilot or talk on radio).
As far as Sim instructors go, my airline's Sim instructors are dedicated Sim Instructors they don't fly the line, mainly retired guys or guys who have lost their medical, however there are check Capt's that do rides in the Sim but no Sim instruction.

Nightflight · Post by **Nightflight** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:05 am

FL_CH wrote:I guess it's not necessarily such a bad thing?
Sit there, enjoy the view, monitor the thing, get paid..

Apart from jetlagging and hotels of course

Good position once you're closer to retirement

Hey FL_CH, just curious if that's GGMT rolling down Rwy 15 in CYKZ past hangar 14 in your avatar. Cheers and yes you are right it's not such a bad thing at all. Hotels ain't that bad either. You can catch up on a lot of extracurricular work if you wanted to or just chill. Yes it's still a job, but it's a great one and beats working in a cubicle day in & day out. Ultimately it's all what you make of it. I love it.

babybus · Post by **babybus** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:17 pm

I've done regional and longhaul and I can say that both are very satisfying but for different reasons.
Longhaul can be a bit boring flying wise but I still get more of a kick doing one leg to a big foreign airport and then going for dinner in Paris or Hong Kong rather than 5 legs of domestic with lot's of hand flying and dinner in Deer Lake.
I agree that jet lag will be a factor but it bothers me less than the fatigue of doing 6 legs over 12 hours in a Dash 8 or CRJ.
Ideally you will fly a widebody that also does some short-haul stuff so you can get a bit of both.

jim_from_texas · Post by **jim_from_texas** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:44 pm

Same here. I've done regional 4-8 sectors a day and now I'm flying long haul with a good mix of short sectors. With the regionals I used to get 30-40 landings a month and now 4 if I'm lucky. Usually hand fly to 10000ft and disconnect at about 2000. The dumbest thing you can do is disconnect in bad wx and then do a go around beause of an unstable approach even though nobody will ever question you for doing it. I'm now actually more excited to do a landing since we get only one every week. I definitely don't miss: icing, low performance a\c, hand flown low vis approaches, pressure to keep the sched...

Thrill of Flying Jumbo Jets

Thrill of Flying Jumbo Jets

Biz Jets