Vsse

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:29 pm

Let me see.......

......flying a twin engine airplane with one engine simulated feather is harder then with one engine windmilling????????

flight instructor · Post by **flight instructor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:29 pm

I was trying to make a point. some of the instructors here seem to think taking an aircraft to the edge of the envelope is a safe thing, and qualify it by stating, "good instructor", "good flight school", whatever those actually mean.

I don' t know if you are an instructor or not, but you have missed the purpose of the initial training and advanced training.

There is one time at wich you take an aircraft to the edge of the envelope: when receiving FLIGHT INSTRUCTION.

After when you bring the aircraft at the edge of the envelope, generaly speaking (they are exceptions) this is when you crash.

flight instructor · Post by **flight instructor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:34 pm

Let me see.......

......flying a twin engine airplane with one engine simulated feather is harder then with one engine windmilling????????

That' s becoming very funny Cat. Don' t play with the words.

You were not speaking about VMC? OOooops wrong subject...

hahahahahaha

Where'd who go? · Post by **Where'd who go?** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:37 pm

I was lost after the whole Poland incident.

WWG?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:38 pm

flight instructor, you have me really interested in your ideas on how to instruct on twin engine airplanes....I have not flown all the types out there so can you tell me what twin engine airplane you teach on that is harder to fly with one engine simulated feather than with the prop windmilling?

flight instructor · Post by **flight instructor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:39 pm

Yes I am from Poland. Do you have any troubles with that?

Should we speak about the language issue or VMC?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:39 pm

jeses....I must be really hard up for conversation tonight.....

Where'd who go? · Post by **Where'd who go?** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:43 pm

Anything new on the Coast tonight, Cat ?

WWG?

flight instructor · Post by **flight instructor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:46 pm

If you want to make it a bit more difficult leave the dead engine windmilling....

...just make sure you have a safety cushion speed wise above VMC...

Playing around in the VMC envelope is exposing you and your student to unnecessary risk.

Civilian flight training is not a war game and there are no medals handed out to the brave. ( read risk takers. )

I say again you are wrong. When "playing around VMC" (your words) it makes the exercise easier with the "dead engine windmilling", this is safer aswell because is increases your VMC, so you will fly well above the stall "when playing around VMC", and if you lose control the recover will be easier.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:47 pm

Actually I had a phone call this evening from a client in Australia regarding an airplane in Seia Portugal that needs two new engines ( P&W R1830-92's ) and he has given me the job of finding them.....and next summer going to Australia and check out their pilots on the thing.

Other than that I'm just killing time until after the new year, then it gets hectic again.

Where'd who go? · Post by **Where'd who go?** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:50 pm

A 'PIG BOAT'again Cat?

I believe that we may have a mutual friend... Sound familiar?

WWG?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:54 pm

Yeh it is one of the Ex Chilean PBY6A water bombers that has been parked for about 6 years.

I was in Seia for six weeks four years ago getting the other one airworthy and then flew it to France.

Mark Lawson???

Can't place him at the moment.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:01 pm

Well I have things to do so must get off here for a while.

flight instructor maybe you could give me some dual to improve my flying skills?

Where'd who go? · Post by **Where'd who go?** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:01 pm

CAT

He was an Airport Manager out your way about 10yrs ago, me thinks.

Anyway, he speaks highly of you.

WWG?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:05 pm

aahhh yes, now I know who you are talking about..I was trying to think of pilots...or mechanics....

If he thought highly of me then just wait until I get retrained by flight instructor...

flight instructor · Post by **flight instructor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:12 pm

When you have an extensive experience when you are wrong there is two choices:
1-admit it.
Or 2-try to hurt and make fun with the other guy on an easy and non related subject:

I wonder if English is flight instructors fourth language because I'm having trouble trying to decipher what he/she is saying.

I'd say Eastern Europe, probably Poland ?

Are you this excitable when you fly?

And after just change subject:

Anything new on the Coast tonight, Cat ?

With no care at all to leave false statment on a forum, with all the student pilot reading it.

Do you think the fact to be an experience pilot prevent you to be wrong sometimes? Do you think that when you don' t know what to say any more this is a pilot attitude to make fun on people on non related subject?

You keep saying you have done everything seen everything, that' s your best reply.

Where'd who go? · Post by **Where'd who go?** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:15 pm

Good Night to You and Yours, Cat.

WWG?

Where'd who go? · Post by **Where'd who go?** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:21 pm

Oh, and Flight... That's really only one choice. You may choose this or you may choose that.

One choice. Otherwise, you would have to accept an answer of "yes" to select both.

WWG?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:22 pm

flight instructor:

We...you and I are getting no where with this argument..we can go around in circles for ever by arguing how to demonstrate VMC in flight.

I do not believe it is a demonstration that has enough value to offset the risk of flying that close to the edge in aircraft that were designed to be flown in the safe flight regime......

You can do whatever you wish.

Where'd who go? · Post by **Where'd who go?** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:29 pm

Flight Instructor:

Мы не намереваемся никакой вред. Как раз шаловливо. Спокойная ночь.

WWG?

flight instructor · Post by **flight instructor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:35 pm

Yes...or we can say they are two choices (available): A or B. Between those 2 choices, pick up the one you want.

But you should know that right?

As you know english is my foth language.

flight instructor · Post by **flight instructor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:39 pm

WWG:

你明白吗我写的吗？

Isis · Post by **Isis** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:44 pm

I'm sorry, flight instructor, but YOU are wrong. The conditions of Vmc are in fact made worse by allowing the dead engine to continue to windmill, therefore making controllability worse.

You may be a flight instructor by trade, but remember this: You are always a student of life. Don't be afraid to learn from others.

Perhaps writing english isn't the only area you struggle with? Is it possible you misunderstood my experienced comrade?

Yes, you complain about the subject no longer being on topic. Well, I think it's no longer on topic because the points have been made.

Believe it or not, people have different opinions. You can share yours, defend yours to the death - but don't be surprised when someone else does the very same.

I enjoy our conversations always, Cat! Till next time.

- Isis

flight instructor · Post by **flight instructor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:06 pm

Isis:

you are right: for a real engine failure, you will loose control sooner (higher speed) with the dead engine windmilling in addition you will have more drag.

However if we speak about the VMC demo (and it was the subject) it will easier to practice with one engine windmilling because:

-The recognition of the loss of control will be easier and frank,

-You will lose the control most probably ( at low altitude) above stall, which is in itself a good thing,

-Any way you will loose control at a higher speed than with a feathered prop, and this is MUCH SAFER (isn' t it one of the subject of the thread: safety?)

-The recover will be easier.

Saying that VMC demo will be an easier exercice with a propeller feathered than with a feathered windmilling is a wrong statment.

I have to work on my english I know. I will do my best to improve it.

Isis · Post by **Isis** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:15 pm

Saying that VMC demo will be an easier exercice with a propeller windmilling than with a feathered propeller is a wrong statment.

That's not what was said, this was the statement:

If you want to make it a bit more difficult leave the dead engine windmilling....

... which is a correct statement. Besides, conducting a Vmc demo with the prop feathered wouldn't be a Vmc demo as this is not the condition under which Vmc is calculated.

Not to mention, you yourself say:

However if we speak about the VMC demo (and it was the subject) it will easier to practice with one engine windmilling because:...

So, I think you're confusing yourself at the moment. Let's just agree that this topic is done with.

- Isis <- say it with me, I S I S