Glider Pilots

PCAS · Post by **PCAS** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:51 pm

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c8830fa348

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:39 pm

Wow, he seemed pretty hot on final. I thought they were going to ground loop it.

AntiNakedMan · Post by **AntiNakedMan** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:56 pm

I liked how he was using both hands on the control stick. Definately not the ordinary way to do things.

PCAS · Post by **PCAS** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:28 pm

It was the last part of the ground roll that got me. Looked like he was veering off to the left towards some buildings.
Did he actually touch early or was it an abrupt pitch change?

sprucegoose · Post by **sprucegoose** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:30 pm

do i see a VOR on the right ?

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:47 pm

Looks like a control failure...

fanspeed · Post by **fanspeed** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:50 pm

that was shitty.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:59 pm

Wow... I gotta say I was expecting something worse, but still... not the best landing ever.

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:37 pm

fanspeed · Post by **fanspeed** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:50 pm

BoostedNihilist wrote:landing looked fine to me... not the smoothest touchdown but overall pretty nice.. here is my logic

Looks like he is sideslipping the entire final...

what looks to be a harsh flare is him dumping speed before touchdown

Taxis it over to a group of white coffin glider hangers... doesn't need help pushing it back.

Looks like the 'vor' has a turn coordinator underneath.

Check this one out, the crasiest half cuban ever!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XnuqLbHJ1k

It looked to me like a shitty approach and landing on the edge of control.

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:01 pm

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:10 pm

he drops his wing with tons of speed left...
He's screwing with flaps and seems to be stuffing the nose with spoilers out...
altogether confusing, i have no idea what he might be trying to do.
if this is not a control failure, then something is really messed up with this fellas thinking.
not a great performance

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:13 pm

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:21 pm

No, he drops the wing on the run-out.

The guy plants the wing into the ground hurting the nice glider.

He has a huge nose-down attitude, which is kinda odd, unless he's using all sorts of flap, but then he'd need tons of spoiler too. And he's messing with the flaps on landing? it's really confusing. Not really standard (at least not at any gliding site i've seen)

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:22 pm

AntiNakedMan · Post by **AntiNakedMan** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:13 pm

Boosted:

spoilers are surfaces on the top surface of a wing to "spoil" lift; basically they increase the drag and allow you to maintain the same attitude/speed while steepening your approach.

The first time I watched this, I thought it was an instructor talking. Upon closer review it seems to be a guy filming exactly what he is doing. To me, it looks like a poorly planned approach - but I think any approach where you have to forward slip is poorly planned.

In the flare he seems to be too busy talking than thinking and reacting, hence the very abrupt nose up before he hits the ground. However, he could've been attempting a penetration approach, since he said his flaps were set to -8, and once in ground effect he went some distance. I've never flown a glider with flaps, so I can't really speak to how this is done.

The roll out seems fast, but he did say he was approaching at 50kts, and he didn't appear to lose a lot of speed in the holdoff, so he likely touched down hot and was rolling hot, realized he wanted to stop and started turning to the trailers. The grass looks dry, so I doubt it was a braking issue just a want-to-park-in-a-specific spot issue.

While gliders are designed to have one wing on the ground, you want to do it with as little speed as possible to minimize the possibility of damage. I usually won't put a wing down until I am stopped, provided there is enough wind. He mentions at the beginning there is barely any wind.

I still stand by my initial post, about the two hands on the stick. There is never a reason to have both hands on the stick, and you can tell the flare was abrupt and a hail mary maneuver by how fast he brings that stick back. That is definately not normal.

Hope that helps!

Anti

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:31 pm

Looks like he did indeed drag the right wing on the roll out which is not desirable and could have resulted in a ground loop. Usually you let the wing come down once the glider has come to a complete stop and yes, the wingtip is designed to touch the ground, but not at speed. The thing that made me cringe most besides that, was rolling over the taxiway. I have taken the liberty of uploading a proper approach and landing to youtube for comparison. The bounce in this one was a result of a bump in the runway, just so you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj8cFwj9pHg

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:09 am

When you guys land a powered airplane on a runway, do you stop on the runway and walk away from the plane or do you clear the runway?

Gliders can either stop on the runway and close it, or, while they have momentum, turn off the active. It's standard ops at a glider field. That wasn't a groundloop.

Spoilers, and flaps if you have them but often don't, bring you down. Slipping only adds to the fun. A high performance glider can do a go around if he is not too low and slow. I've seen it done. You gotta be real good and have a slippery high performance machine.

He did carry too much speed, but rounding out with spoilers would have given him a smooth landing.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:12 am

I've taxied off many a time and never did I drag the wing. If you don't have the airspeed to keep the wing off, you should stop. Otherwise you're going to damage the ship.

Carrying too much speed and needing full spoiler on final is the sign of a poorly planned approach.

If it was a competition finish, and he were to go back up for another turn around the circuit, then that would be normal. If he was trying to keep speed up to taxi off to a hangar (hangar flight at the end of the day...) that would be normal. But to use flaps and spoiler, point the nose at the ground and maintain 50? I'm just confused, that's all. I'm not saying he's a bad pilot, I just can't figure out what the hell he's doing!

And for the record, glider go-arounds, are the coolest thing going.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:20 pm

2 hands on the stick and that ham-fisted pull-up suggest to me that he wasn't paying attention, kinda like driving and talking on yer cell phone.

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:39 pm

now here is a tough landing with lots of speed where the wing touches and it loops

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYDdEjloYJ0&NR=1

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:55 am

I'm not sure this is actually a glider. It sounds like a little two stroke running the background and the attitude looks too steep for a glider approach. Could it be an ultra light?

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:29 pm

Wilbur wrote:I'm not sure this is actually a glider. It sounds like a little two stroke running the background and the attitude looks too steep for a glider approach. Could it be an ultra light?

no, it couldn't be

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