Air Tractor 802 accident in Australia

[nacho]

Well-Known Aussie Pilot Dies In Air Tanker Test
Col Pay, regarded as one of Australia’s "legendary" pilots in news reports from there, died last week in a crash while testing a new type of air tanker. Pay was test-flying an Air Tractor 802 air tanker, made in Olney, Texas, when it flipped on a lake. Pay, 75, was evaluating the aircraft, which was reportedly equipped with a system that allows wheel-equipped aircraft to skim the surface of a lake and scoop up water for fighting fires. This type of aircraft is used in the U.S., Canada and Europe for firefighting but the scooping versions are equipped with amphibious floats and pick up water while in a high-speed taxi. Pay’s accident happened while he was scooping water from Lake Liddell in the Hunter Valley. Pay’s company, Pay’s Air Services, has contracts to provide firefighting services in the area and was evaluating the aircraft. The pilot of a second test aircraft, Harley McIllop, witnessed the accident. Australian authorities are investigating and the aviation industry is mourning Pay's loss. He’d been flying for more than 50 years and was a founding member of the Scone Aero Club. "We just can't believe it," Club President Neville Partridge told reporters. "He was such a character, but he could be a cranky bugger, too. He was so experienced, really tough."


Sad to hear but somehow I suspected it could be done with a wheel equipped aircraft.

[Ogee]

Obviously it couldn't.

[nacho]

It would be the same as saying that floatplanes can't land on grass\ or snow.

[Cat Driver]

Sad to hear but somehow I suspected it could be done with a wheel equipped aircraft.

Did he have the wheels down for a water landing?

[nacho]

It was a wheeled AT 802, they were conducting some tests with a water scoop. It was not an amphib.

[bmc]

Isn't that, like, kinda dangerous?

It can't be that obvious. How was it modified?

[Cat Driver]

It was a wheeled AT 802, they were conducting some tests with a water scoop. It was not an amphib.

How could you scoop water with a wheel equipped airplane?

[nacho]

Don't know much about it, just what I could gather from the news.

[Cat Driver]

nacho, it had to be a Fire Boss on Whipline Amphibs, it would be inconceivable to try and scoop water with a wheel equipped AT 802.

[nacho]

I thought so too, but if you read the article, it says just that.

[rum-runner]

nacho, it had to be a Fire Boss on Whipline Amphibs, it would be inconceivable to try and scoop water with a wheel equipped AT 802.

It was NOT a FireBoss.
This link shows a picture of the aircraft.
http://stgeorge.yourguide.com.au/news/n ... 01738.html
Click on the picture for a better view of the aircraft.

This link will explain what was going on .. sounds like one wheel/ski dug in .. page 2 explains the aircraft confiuration and type of scoop.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=303516

[Siddley Hawker]

Disregard. I had supplied the same link as rum-..

[rigpiggy]

I used to live next to "Dangerous" Dan Mcivor. one of his last projects, was he wanted to convert a ski equipped Hercules for skimming/waterbombing. Sorry to hear about Mr. Pay

[Cat Driver]

Oh, my God what a truly sad loss for aviation.

Thanks for the links rum ..

[xsbank]

So, is the purpose of the skiis to allow the plane to go slower when it was scooping? There is something very wrong with the ski idea - the physics of hydroplaning are well-known and the speeds that guarantee that the 'vehicle' will be supported by the water can be calculated for spinning tires or stationary tires. The skiis would allow some water between the wheel and that ski thingy and would mess up the speed and I'll bet add a ton of drag.

Every floatplane pilot knows what it feels like to 'dig' a float, and how effective and useful it can be to stuff the nose of the float down to get off the step and stop early... its the flat area in front of the step that provides the drag. I'll bet that flat ski is what hurt this guy.

And, I wonder how much drag the 'probe' he used produced.

What a sad loss, especially for someone attempting to pioneer a new process.

[wtf_over]

This is almost as good an Idea as borek wanting to fly floats at night in the maldives

[Bede]

Isn't there a place in ALaska where they fly floats at night?

[Cap'n P8]

I think there is a place down in one of the Eastern States that has a private lighted water strip for the local rich folks. They have an amphib caravan if I remember correctly that they use to shuttle people into the development.

[bandit1]

I think Lake Hood in AK has lights on it.

[rum-runner]

I think Lake Hood in AK has lights on it.

The lights are on land along the edge of the longer landing area.
This link provides the type of lighting available and some of the rules for
night operations. http://www.airnav.com/airport/PALH

[bushwhacker]

Here's a picture of skis on water. Probably with the right set-up and proper set of wheel skis this would be doable.
I remember years ago guys would high speed taxi over open water just for chuckles. 180's and beavers on straight skis.

[ch135146]

Convair XF2Y-1 Sea Dart, from the 'Fifties:

[nacho]

the guy was on the right track uh ?

[Midnight Sun Flyer]

Here's a picture of skis on water. Probably with the right set-up and proper set of wheel skis this would be doable.
I remember years ago guys would high speed taxi over open water just for chuckles. 180's and beavers on straight skis.

Yes at about 30 mph the Single otter would ski on Top of the water just fine, did it many times when the Bay ice was flooded with 2-3 feet of water, just start your take off run on a dry area.

[Driving Rain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYqa6DFkVzQ