703/704 recruits U/S to WJ

[Mad Flying Ace]

Rumour sweeping the settlement is that WJ will not be hiring anyone other than folks from 705 operations. I guess they had a couple of king air types guys go through the system - one required extra training and one they ended up letting go.

So it sounds like to get to the Teal Team, you will need to go through the Jazz academy or something 705ish.

Good Luck to all!

MFA

[. .]

It was my understanding that they counted structured solid sop 704 medium time as well. (read ggn/cma)

[untucked]

I highly doubt WJ will stop taking, for example, 1900 drivers from CMA. That just wouldn't make any sense considering the number of guys/girls that HAVE worked well coming from that flying background. I've worked for short sighted companies that impose blanket rules based on ill advised sweeping generalizations (ie instructors can't do operational flying). I think we can give WJ a little more credit than that.

[Mad Flying Ace]

I think CMA is 705 - could be wrong though - in any case, people in little airplanes apparently are behind the airplane when it comes to 737 - guess folks coming from a "705" environment are cheaper to train.

WWWWWWWWWwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

MFA

[Ali G]

Troll methinks.

Regardless, CMA is 704 and so is GGN. They are still taking guys from both.

[WJ700]

They've had pilots with 1000's of hours of heavy jet PIC need more training.... The score for experience still comes from a list of criteria... 705 operators always score the highest.... but I just met a really nice guy from Bearskin in the last new hire class.

[KAG]

I think he's refering to non commuter ops in light turboprops.
Time to make a move MFA, and get your a$$ over here!!!!!!!

[skyhigh]

recently flew with someone who also told me that a couple had to be let go because they couldn't get through the training......however haven't heard anything along the lines of the company starting to refuse to hire king air guys.

[rudder]

Shouldn't be a problem as there are dozens of Jazz pilots with fresh CRJ endorsements ready to go...........

No wonder they call Jazz initial CRJ training WJA Phase 1

[bandit1]

If a 200hr kid can pass CRJ training at Jazz, A good King Air Captain should be able to pass the 737 training.

[express]

enough of this trolling BS. The training is awesome. The program is awesome. The guys training the initial's are awesome. There's certainly a tonne to cover and learn, don't get me wrong. A tonne. BUT...if you can't get through the program...

[Hoov]

enough of this trolling BS. The training is awesome. The program is awesome. The guys training the initial's are awesome. There's certainly a tonne to cover and learn, don't get me wrong. A tonne. BUT...if you can't get through the program...

and that is like...totally awesome!

[express]

jsyk...like oh my god didn't you read my post...like I know it is totally awesome...lol...

[twinpratts]

Heard the last crse had all but one guy from Jazz .

[vortac]

Whats it cost to train a Jazz guy/gal? What a waste of money. Mgmnt is watching them all file out the door, playing the we will always have a high turnover bit.

[rampking]

Shouldn't be a problem as there are dozens of Jazz pilots with fresh CRJ endorsements ready to go...........

No wonder they call Jazz initial CRJ training WJA Phase 1

Dude every person in my class that got on the RJ was straight off a Navajo 6 fellas including me off 705 equipment got the dash...although not to broken up about it, it's a better schedule, and in the following class the exact same thing, so I feel for westjet, there getting a bunch of Ho drivers. Even though this is where I want to end up in the end.

King

[Hawkerguygonebye]

RampKing;

I have commented on this topic in the past but your present situation only validates my concerns and that of many other Wj pilots of the deficiencies of the new matrix. The fact that a guy got through some intense RJ training and survived a month or two online at Jazz does not make him WJ material. Your attitude in the long term is all that matters. 200k a year in extra training for some excellent people pays big dividends in the long run. It's not like that money was sent south to some facility in the states. It is our guys that train you and it's our guys who have a vested interest in your success and that of the companies. I started here with a fellow who flew mostly single pilot IFR up north. He is the epitome of a true Westjetter. He got through the 200 training no problem and with much reluctance on his part was one of the last to be transitioned to the 700. He needed some extra training on the 700. He is a great driver with a great attitude. His attitude is what makes the difference. Our training guys are the best in the business. Pilots are the only long term asset or liability of an airline. A CSA is not a career here nor is a FA. 200k a year! We could spill that. If I have to forgo 50 bucks a year from my profit sharing because we had to call our own trainers in, to help out a great guy or gal, I'll pre-pay. Just the humble thoughts of a bush wacker with no time for the bullshit. An RJ endoresed briefcase toter does not a WJ pilot make!

[KAG]

If it made any difference I would personally sit down with the guys like MFA that I would have refered, and give them help with their course if they needed it.
The biggest thing about doing a 705 jet course is knowing what is "need to know" and what is "nice to know". guys comming off smaller props and smaller opperatioins (myself included) tend to get themselves bogged down by trying to learn everything. It can't be done, don't try. Stick to the flows, SOPS, and just focus on flying the sim how it's written in the SOP's and it will go smooth. The rest just know where to find it.
EFIS and FMS...get a copy of MS flight sim and practice, its really not that hard.

[Flightlevels]

Hi KAG, you hit the nail on the head when it comes to sitting down with someone. Unfortunately we don't have 8 or 10 of you to sit down with every class. Things have changed for the better or worse ...which ever way you look at it. As Hawker mentioned we have great people from the past with a weaker background. However back then we had the luxury to put those people on the 200 and they stayed close to home for awhile. Now the training is more complex. We are doing rnp, etops cat3 etc all in addition to what we use to train. Originally the new 700 fo was not exposed to RNP until the first recurrent and had one or two less training slots. One less thing to worry about. This is overwhelming for someone coming out of the bush for example. Patterns have developed over the last few years. Take age, today with a red hot recruitment scene in Canada, the average pilot walking in the westjet door is about 28. As little as 5 years ago we were looking at 35. TT is starting to creep down too. WJ class averages are still around 4500hrs, which taken 5 years ago the average was probably 7500 if not more. The older you are coming into a job like this the harder it will be to get through unless you have the background to support it. Coming off a king air and being 50 yrs old...good luck. Stats have supported this time and time again.
One thing that many people miss too is that many candidates go to jazz to get to westjet. Nothing wrong with this. Some people come to westjet to go somewhere else. It is the nature of the business. Has always been around and will never leave anytime soon. Jazz simply takes a candidate, and polishes them for us. Think of all the parallels there are between the two companies. That is the whole basis for the matrix. Draw as many parallels between ANY airline in Canada and westjet (sim training, jet time, busy airports, transborder, etops etc), you will then have a really good chance of getting on. Simply couple that with a recommend or two from someone and a good work ethic and attitude, please apply! The less similarities, the longer the wait.

There are plenty of good guys and gals out there and although westjet is pretty much stopped taking from 703 etc, we are still getting lots of highly recommended people, they are just coming with a different set of qualifications. Economics are a consideration and as Hawker mentioned too, a good candidate can pay dividends. Trouble is when is enough extra training enough? two, three or four extra sessions and then reoccurring trouble down the road. Who's best interest are we looking after? the shareholder? the pax safety?

It boils down to, times have changed and so has the pilot market. Westjet is adapting and changing with it. If anyone has a solution. Please post it. Please don't start with the college route...lol.

[rampking]

If one were lets say just hired at Jazz but has never applied to West Jet. But does have pretty much all requirements but no Jet time,with 5 internal references all of whom are pilots. How long could one expect to wait to hear back? I 've heard they have a huge amount of qualified people on file now.

All great points above...

King

[Mclovin]

Also just wondering if many jazz dash guys/girls end up at WJ?

[Valcore]

Most of the Jazz guys that I know that got on there over a year ago all came from the Dash. Im pretty sure there is no preference. It's just Jazz in general.

[KAG]

4 of us Jazzers on my course, 3 were from the Dash.

[CCR]

I won't repost what Dave P has written on the WJPA site, but it looks like those coming from 705 operators have the edge over 703/704. The exceptions being CMA and Georgian candidates. According to his post we had 25 extra training events this past year out of 132 new hires. Most of these were from 703/704 candidates. As some may know, we have a very complex operation as compared to other operators. We have no system, other than ETOPS, to restrict new hires from the various ops we do. When I first started here, there was no RNP, CAT III or ETOPS and we were barely scratching the surface of our Carribean/Mexico destinations. It's a ton of stuff to learn and then apply. As a Captain I know it's my job to coach a new hire on these topics. It makes a difficult job even more difficult when I also have to guide an F/O through the nuances of just normal day to day airline culture and operations.

Going forward, Dave posted that we are hiring 120 pilots this year and that internal recommends still play a big part of the equation.

Best of luck to all those who apply and for those who are 703/704....look for jobs that directly relate to what we do i.e. Sim training, Schedule service, Trans Border/Foreign ops, complex/modern aircraft, jet time. 40 out of the 132 hired this past year were Jazz!!

[co-joe]

That's depressing CCR.

No offense but how come airlines in other parts of the world can put 200 hour pilots into the right seat of widebodies and WJ can't train 4000 hour king air captains successfully? And through all this a 1900 captain who has landed at the same 5 airports over and over again in an aircraft with no FMS or autopilot making 42k a year can make the transition with no problem? Sounds off to me.