Comments on Piper Turbo Arrow III (PA28R-201T)

[JAHinYYC]

Collective wisdom time...

A few months ago, I wrote soliciting advice for the PA28-140. I have decided it is too slow and carries little to do the job I want it to.

I am thinking of buying a low time (2000TTAF and 800SMOH) Turbo Arrow for personal use.

Beyond the general comments:

1) Baby the Engine;
2) Buy the Merlyn Wastegate;
3) Plan for 150kts on 11GPH @ 9,000...

Does anyone have realworld advice?

I live and fly out of Springbank. So main missions are 300NM east to Saskatchewan or south to Montana, but I can forsee wanting to go over the rocks to the West Coast or down to California. For that reason, the turbo is a "nice to have" to allow me to cross at altitide.

The Mooney M20F body is too small for a guy of my size and the C177RG is likely to struggle above 12,000. The C182 carries enough weight, but burns more gas and flies 15kts slower than the T Arrow.

Am I missing any other options?

[BoostedNihilist]

.

[5x5]

Well, I have a '74 normally aspirated Arrow and I think it's a great aircraft. It's very reliable and not that expensive to maintain considering retractable and constant speed. It's hard to beat for speed, fuel consumption and load.

A better place for info might be http://www.piperowner.org if you haven't already looked there.

And though it's priced a bit high there is a turbo for sale in Edmonton - http://www.thomasaviation.com/gsjd.htm and remember, it's the asking price.

pm me if you'd like more info.

[xsbank]

I'd bet there is a much better choice and much better resale price in a 182. If you don't get a retractable you'll save a ton of money on maintenance. My choice would be a 180 for load, speed, maintenance and resale. Noisier, likely, and needs more 'skill' to fly but zooms along and can land on a dime. I have 1200 hours in one and the older the version, the nicer it flies.

There's always the Fork-tail-doctor-killer too, or the C210.

You also don't get wet when you climb into a Cessna!

[Hedley]

Speaking of Cessnas ... a turbo-normalized C185 w/G530
might be an interesting choice, perhaps with an S-TEC
autopilot.

http://www.taturbo.com/frames.html

[Freetime]

I used to own a normally aspirated Arrow, and I loved it. Very cheap on fuel for the speed it attains, and it sold for quite a bit more than I purchased it for. However, I am a little guy, so getting in/out was no prob. A great friend of mine had a Cardinal and it was super easy to get into/out of. Wide swinging door, seats that slide very far forward, and tons of cabin space.

[Bede]

Grumman Tiger. As fast (or almost as fast) as an arrow, low maintenance costs (fixed gear and fixed prop). No grass though.

[Doc]

I'm with Bede, I flew the Tiger, the 182, an Arrow, and, yes, the Viking.
182....more value, probably because it's a Cessna. Higher maint costs because of the CS prop.

Viking. Great to fly! Good luck on keeping it out of the hangar, though. You'll just be throwing money at it...and it's a pig on gas.

Arrow. I flew an older one to the Bahamas. Had a hoot. But they are not fast enough to warrant the extra maint costs with the gear and prop. And, I wouldn't touch the "T" tailed models.

The TIGER. Handles like a wee fighter. No maint on prop or retractable gear. Almost as fast as the Arrow.....Crunch the numbers on a 200 nm leg. Bet you'd be on the ground while the Arrow driver's coffee is still hot.

And, is the ability to "cross the rocks" at altitude worth the extra 50K you'll have to spend on an airplane that'll do that for you? Keep in mind, these are single engine piston airplanes, and as such should never be considered "all weather, go anytime" airplanes.

[JAHinYYC]

And, is the ability to "cross the rocks" at altitude worth the extra 50K you'll have to spend on an airplane that'll do that for you? Keep in mind, these are single engine piston airplanes, and as such should never be considered "all weather, go anytime" airplanes.

My desire stems from wanting to file IFR and being confronted with MEAs that are in the 13,000ft range. Naturally I would avoid cloud and precip since there is no anti ice capability - but I would still like to fly on airways to and from my destinations.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I have about 50 hrs in a Turbo Arrow 4. The T tail gets a lot of (desirved) bad press but it is not that big a deal. You just have to accept that it will overrotate at liftoff and the nosewheel will slam on as soon as the mains touch. The up side is the Arrow 4's are the same price (or even cheaper) than Arrow 3's and up to 5 years newer. The big issue is the engine. I found it was a dream to start hot or cold because of the excellent priming sytem and I thought it was very quiet and smooth in flight, especiially compared to the normally spirated Lyc IO 360. However, I would only buy one with a runout engine or one where I absolutely positively know the last owner knew how to fly the engine. If you buy the one with 800 hrs SMOH, I would immediately budget for 6 new cylinders. I would would also have the exhaust sytem looked at very carefully. This is one area you do not want to scrimp because a failed exhaust on a turbo'd engine usually leads to an inflight fire

[Doc]

13000 feet? I thought you were thinking flight levels. The Tiger can handle 13,000 easy. I've cruised 172s that high.

[randallg]

If you like the Cardinal RG (as I do) you should know that there are a number of turbo'd units out there. Or you can have the turbo done - STC is held by http://www.taturbo.com - cost is about $40k at this time. I am thinking of having it done myself one day for the same reason as you. Another good reason to consider a Cardinal is they have the best owner's group - http://www.cardinalflyers.com

Here's a performance note from a Cardinal RG turbo pilot:
On long cross countries, I typically cruise at 16,500 or 17,500. At 40 LOP or so, that’s a fuel burn in the 9.5 gph to 10 gph range, with TAS in the 160 kts to 165 kts. At 75 ROP, about 13 gph, it will cruise at 177 knots at 17,700 feet (the 177x177 advertised in the brochure). I’ll readily give up 10% of my cruise speed to save 30% on fuel flow! Paul

[Daart]

For info on any aircraft, go to aviation consumer.com, an awesome source of data, good and bad.

[FlowPack]

JAHinYYC

Check your PM's

[N2]

Yep I agree with Doc and the others when it comes to the Tiger!