BA 777 shortfield landing at Heathrow

[FastFlyBy]

This seems to contradict the engines out theory.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/world ... throw.html

The jet, a twin-engined Boeing 777, was in the final minutes of a scheduled flight — BA 38 — from Beijing. Witnesses interviewed by British news organizations said the plane, with 136 passengers on board, seemed to be banking steeply to make its final approach to Heathrow with its engines on full power.

Neil Jones, a recreational pilot interviewed by the BBC, said the airplane did not appear to be making the usual straight-line approach into Heathrow but had banked in sharply from one side. The plane’s flaps and landing gear both seemed to be in their normal positions for a landing, he said.

Both Mr. Jones and another witness said the plane’s engines were making much more noise than usual on approach, suggesting that the pilot was seeking to use the plane’s power to avoid losing height.

[invertedattitude]

Take a close look at this photo:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php? ... 406&nseq=1

Look between the two slides in the back, the hole under the windows.

Looks like an exit wound rather than something going in. Considering there was only light injuries, this hole is quite interesting. Any thoughts?

[invertedattitude]

This seems to contradict the engines out theory.

Keep in mind that in 99.9% of accidents, eyewitnesses are usually completely wrong and almost always blow things way out of proportion.


CVR/FDR will tell us in short notice anyway.

[2milefinal]

Take a close look at this photo:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php? ... 406&nseq=1

Look between the two slides in the back, the hole under the windows.

Looks like an exit wound rather than something going in. Considering there was only light injuries, this hole is quite interesting. Any thoughts?

strange

[Carrier]

"A spokesman for Heathrow -- the world's busiest international airport......."
Why do we keep seeing this Brit bullsh*t? Are the posters who keep repeating it on the Brit propaganda payroll or are they really that ignorant? A quick on-line seach indicates that Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta INTERNATIONAL Airport has approximately twice the annual movements of Heathrow and approximately one third more pax per annum than London Heathrow.

[Rockie]

This is a great example of how statistics can be manipulated to say whatever someone wants them to say. Heathrow ranks third in terms of passengers behind Atlanta, and isn't the busiest in terms of movements either. But it has more international passengers than any other airport in the world. Atlanta has much more domestic passengers adding to the total.

[fogghorn]

Take a close look at this photo:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php? ... 406&nseq=1

Look between the two slides in the back, the hole under the windows.

Looks like an exit wound rather than something going in. Considering there was only light injuries, this hole is quite interesting. Any thoughts?

strange

Hard to imagine a hole like that caused by flying debris during the crash. Almost looks like something that could have been fired at the a/c and went straight through.

[Rockie]

Uh-oh. I can see the headline now.

"MISSILE DOWNS AIRLINER BUT FAILS TO EXPLODE"

[Campanola]

This seems to contradict the engines out theory.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/world ... throw.html

The jet, a twin-engined Boeing 777, was in the final minutes of a scheduled flight — BA 38 — from Beijing. Witnesses interviewed by British news organizations said the plane, with 136 passengers on board, seemed to be banking steeply to make its final approach to Heathrow with its engines on full power.

Neil Jones, a recreational pilot interviewed by the BBC, said the airplane did not appear to be making the usual straight-line approach into Heathrow but had banked in sharply from one side. The plane’s flaps and landing gear both seemed to be in their normal positions for a landing, he said.

Both Mr. Jones and another witness said the plane’s engines were making much more noise than usual on approach, suggesting that the pilot was seeking to use the plane’s power to avoid losing height.

Not necessarly, if as an example you ran out of Fuel, engines will not flame out at the same time. You will increase the power (Noise, yaw and/or bank) on the remaining engine to make it to the runway and shortly after you lose the second engine.

[Splatm]

It was the pax in 34A crapping their pants so hard it blew a hole in the aircraft

I seem to remember a firefighting technique that involves sticking a nozzle through the skin of the aircraft. Would sorta suck if you were still on board. Is that possible in this case?

[Edelweiss air]

Take a close look at this photo:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php? ... 406&nseq=1

Look between the two slides in the back, the hole under the windows.

Looks like an exit wound rather than something going in. Considering there was only light injuries, this hole is quite interesting. Any thoughts?

It could possibly be from the Fire Dept. I remeber reading somewhere that they have nozzels that can go through the A/C so that they can spray inside of the airplane. Not sure though

[invertedattitude]

Take a close look at this photo:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php? ... 406&nseq=1

Look between the two slides in the back, the hole under the windows.

Looks like an exit wound rather than something going in. Considering there was only light injuries, this hole is quite interesting. Any thoughts?

It could possibly be from the Fire Dept. I remeber reading somewhere that they have nozzels that can go through the A/C so that they can spray inside of the airplane. Not sure though

Yes they do, but they only do this as fire supression, not prevention I believe, so I can't see why they would have pierced a whole in the side of the airframe... also when I saw this demonstrated, it was supposed to be pierced in the roof above windows to cover the area.

From that entry it would be jamming almost into the floor or under a seat, hardly effective coverage!

[Redwine]

I see "the world's most experienced airline" had another experience today...
Latest is witness of Canada Geese ingested on final approach.












IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, PLEASE, FEEL
FREE...TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM

[invertedattitude]

Finally a reported says something reassuring, he was on a flight waiting for departure and witnessed the accident:

Our pilot went into reassurance overdrive, calmly stressing that this was all extremely unusual. In fact, there had been not so much as an "eek!" let alone a scream from our crammed Airbus A319. Everyone had watched in the same, double-taking disbelief.

Then the captain had to break the bad news. Barmy customs regulations meant that he was unable to open the bar. So, we were offered a cup of tea and a chicken sandwich to steady our nerves instead.

Finally, he broadcast the news that anyone wanting to get off was welcome to do so. Only a handful took up the offer. If this incident had been bewildering and unpleasant to watch, its aftermath was somewhow rather reassuring. If a plane can come all the way from China, crash land and then allow its passengers to walk away, it may be a safer bet than the trip home along the M4.

[ScudRunner]

Take a close look at this photo:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php? ... 406&nseq=1

Look between the two slides in the back, the hole under the windows.

Looks like an exit wound rather than something going in. Considering there was only light injuries, this hole is quite interesting. Any thoughts?

If you exam the photo and the hole in the side of the plane there are 2 scrape marks below and forward of the hole. The aircraft landed short (for whatever reason) dug the gear in and sheared the right main off sending debri not to mention the entire Gear assembly backwards to the fusalege, I would figure that one of these objects tore into the cabin and poped back out in a prying manner. The bottum of the hole is puntured in and the top of the hole is pulled out. you can also see the damage on the right tail wich is similar to the fuselage puncture. The Aircraft final resting position is cocked to the right because after the gear tore off the engine dug into the ground pulling it that way.

Hows that for a thought,

I'm calling the 500 hour F/O got behind the power curve and hammered the throttles to save it and its 100% pilot error, or the an Al Quada sect from Stoney Rapids unleashed 1000 Canada goose suicied birds into the engine.

[sportingrifle]

Every time an accident occurs, the armchair experts are speculating on AvCanada before the wreckage has stopped skidding. Invariably, when the facts are known, going back and reading these posts makes those engaged in this mindless exercise look pretty ignorant. Of course, those people don't go back to the archived posts, the are too busy cooking up wild eyed ideas about the current incident of the day.

Re: the hole in the RH side of the aft fuselage. Explosive exit hole - bomb perhaps as one suggested? O'h an entry hole- must be one of the Al Quaida missles.

FYI, the B777 lands with the cabin pressurised at -300' msl. for structural reasons. Normally this pressurisation ids slowly bled off during taxi in. In the event of an emergency evacuation, it is blown off. The round hole is the cabin overpressure vent valve open. Anybody else want to look at some tiny part of the aircraft that they know nothing about and speculate about the cause of the accident?

Also FYI: Remember the Seneca that hit the building in YVR a number of months ago. The AvCanada pundits said pilot incompetance, mis-handled engine failure, fuel exhaustion because there was no fire, yadda yadda yadda. Turns out to be a case of a simple heart attack around liftoff.

Lets just be thankful that no one was hurt in this accident, wait for the facts, and then try and learn from them. Doing anything else just makes us look like idiots to any of the public browsing the forum. Just my $0.02

[xsbank]

"The round hole is the cabin overpressure vent valve open."

Wrong. You wasted your 2¢.

[xsbank]

I noticed that PPruNe has imploded. I was hoping to get some real information but, c'est la guerre.

What's wrong with speculation? Its what we do.

[the_professor]

One passenger said on CNN

"It seemed like a normal, but bumpy landing up until we were being evacuated"

Now either this guy is brainless or a first time flier, how the hell you wouldn't know something was wrong is somewhat incredible.

"Barbara, is it normal to see chunks of grass flying past the windows on landing?"

[2milefinal]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 207393.ece
umm... one engine or two sometimes it just dont matter.
If this is what really went on, all I can say is WOW.

There was not enough time to warn the 136 passengers that they should adopt the brace position.

With just seconds to go before landing, Peter Burkill, captain of flight BA038, realised that his Boeing 777 was not going to make the runway rushing towards them.

It was 12.42pm. The flight, which had left Beijing 12 hours earlier, was on time. A minute from touchdown at Heathrow, Captain Burkill and his co-pilot discovered that the aircraft was dropping faster than the standard three-degree descent. There appeared to have been a catastrophic loss of power affecting both engines. The cockpit electronics may also have failed, leaving only the battery-powered airspeed indicator and altimeter operating.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Also FYI: Remember the Seneca that hit the building in YVR a number of months ago. The AvCanada pundits said pilot incompetance, mis-handled engine failure, fuel exhaustion because there was no fire, yadda yadda yadda. Turns out to be a case of a simple heart attack around liftoff.

Where did you get this information?

[buck82]

Its shocking that some people thought it nothing more than a normal landing until the oxygen masks came down..

[Hornblower]

What's a "crash landing"?

[Jaques Strappe]

Rule number 1

Never believe a god damned thing the media says. I doubt at this point, the Captain even has all the details as to what actually happened.

[Doc]

What's a "crash landing", you ask? Most of mine.