Wanted 100 multi time

[skydivepilot]

I would like to log 100 hours of multi-engine time and was wondering what the cheapest way to do it. I checked some local schools in the past but they do not rent their twins solo. I would like to try a Cessna 337 Skymaster but don't know of anyone who rents them. Any other twin would be considered as well. Thanks for any advice.

[THEICEMAN]

Some good opportunities in the U.S. since fuel is considerably cheaper down there.

Ari Ben in Fort Pierce does it for 9,995$ U.S wet with a Beech Duchess. Only half counts according to the CARS since the program is half PIC flying & half safety time. FAR 91.109 allows two pilot to log PIC (PF & safety pilot).
But relatively speaking, 50hrs credited for 10K is alright.
http://www.flyaviator.com/100hr.html

In Montreal, we have cargair who rents an Aztec for 253$/hr + tax wet. But, the cash must be upfront & tax is a killer!

I heard of a guy who rents a seneca I for 95$ an hour dry in Fort lauderdale. Try searching on google for him...

After that, good luck!

[AntiNakedMan]

Millenium Aviation in YXE has a Twin Comanche they will rent out. I can't remember the rate, but I don't think it was overly high.

306-384-4230

[bin landin]

I would like to log 100 hours of multi-engine time and was wondering what the cheapest way to do it.

Pick up a pen, open your logbook, and start writing......seems to be the way most of the new pilots are doing it these days from our refrence checks on resumes.

Seriously, though, maybe try for an entry job on a light twin hauling bags around or something similar. Good luck

[Strega]

I would like to log 100 hours of multi-engine time and was wondering what the cheapest way to do it.

Pick up a pen, open your logbook, and start writing......seems to be the way most of the new pilots are doing it these days from our refrence checks on resumes.

Seriously, though, maybe try for an entry job on a light twin hauling bags around or something similar. Good luck

I didnt know parker made a twin!

[skydivepilot]

Thank you. I would love to find a job on a twin hauling bags but there doesn't seem to anything available to me at the moment. I need these addtional 100 hours to qualify for a job that starts in April. I will check into Ari Ben in Florida. Has anyone had any experience with them before?

[bin landin]

Make certain you have the job....a hundred hours is just one or two months experience on line, and it costs a great deal of money.

I understand the company may have an insurance issue, but you should talk to them about alternatives such as a training captain for 25 hours, or additional premium. In a month or so you will have the 100 hours.

I recommended the certainity because I have seen companies tell pilots...aw shucks, if you only had this or that, get it and we will hire you on the spot....the company means go away...the pilot hears...I've got a job. Not saying this is whats happening but before I would go and pay for 100 hours of twin time I would want confirmation in writing..and again. good luck

[Cat Driver]

It would be a very expensive way to find a job.....far better to take the money to Vegas and waste it on gambling.

[skydivepilot]

I was told it is for insurance purposes and the operator told me he'd pay for my PPC plus an additional 10 hours. I hate to have to shell out money for the multi time but do want to find a full time flying job.

[Doc]

Cat....gambling??? You're getting really old, dude. Spend it on hookers! I'll sell you 100 hours. What type would you like them in?

I'm sorry, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but who in their right mind would rent a twin for 100 hours????

[Strega]

Doc,


Is the swiss girl still around?

I thought I heard her on the radio the other day, but I didnt have time to ask. .


S

[Doc]

The Swiss girl went to Africa, the last I heard. We're all real broken up about it.

[THEICEMAN]

skydivepilot, there are other ways around paying 300 $/hr. If you can find an instructor or somebody with a CPL with 500 TT & 50 multi, looking to build multi, you can split the cost in half & log dual.

280$/hr would turn into 140$/hr....which isn't so bad.

Any private multi flyers at the local airport who want a companion for a long trip?
Heck, if you have 500 hrs & an IFR, you can instruct some M/IFR & log PIC.

[Doc]

Imagine the quality training you'd get form a guy who wants to buy 100 hours of twin time.

[1000 HP]

As I've said before, steal the plane, elude capture for a week. You should be able to fly over 100 hours in a week, running from the law. The jail time may be cheaper than the renting.

[trey kule]

Hell of a plan actually. And the real upside is you would actually be flying the plane.

Beats riding around in the right seat and calling it "dual" so you can log it.

[THEICEMAN]

Beats riding around in the right seat and calling it "dual" so you can log it.

Left seat logs dual....not right.

[Cat Driver]

Left seat logs dual....not right.

B.S.

[AuxBatOn]

Beats riding around in the right seat and calling it "dual" so you can log it.

Left seat logs dual....not right.

Soooo, someone doing his/her Instructor Rating seating in the right seat will log PIC and the actual instructor in the left seat will log dual?

AuxBatOn

[skydivepilot]

The actual instructor in the left seat will log PIC while the student instructor in the right seat will log dual.

I tried contating Ari Ben in Florida about their 100 hour program but they haven't gotten back to me yet. I hate to have to pay for the hours so am looking at different options. Thanks for the help everyone.

[AuxBatOn]

The actual instructor in the left seat will log PIC while the student instructor in the right seat will log dual.

That was my point, trying to get ICEMAN to think of a scenario different than the typical PPL/CPL/Multi training so he could realize that Left Seat is not necessarely Dual in the case of instructional flights!

AuxBatOn

[THEICEMAN]

that's not what I'm talking about guys....

Given the following scenario:

Two pilots both have a CPL, M/IFR, 500TT, 50 multi, 10 on type (light twin). Both want to freshen up some of their multi & IFR skills.
During a flight under VMC conditions......the pilot on the left goes under the hood & the one on the right is on the look out & instruting.

Is it not legal, that the pilot on the left seat logs dual while the pilot on the right seat logs PIC.
The CARS states that if he meets the requirements stated above, then he is a qualified Multi/ IFR instructor.

Soooo, someone doing his/her Instructor Rating seating in the right seat will log PIC and the actual instructor in the left seat will log dual?

Both pilots do not have FTUs! Let's stop mixing left & right seat.....remember that we are talking about a light twin. Pilot training on the left & qualified instructor on the right.

The actual instructor in the left seat will log PIC while the student instructor in the right seat will log dual.

Instructors don't fly with you at ARi Ben. They pair you up with another pilot in the program. The only time you fly with an instructor is during the 5 hour check.

Remember that it's only a Beech Duchess not a king air. The guy on the right is only a safety pilot.
But accprdoing to FAR 91.109, two pilots log pic simultanoeusly! This is not the case in Canada.

B.S.

Well Cat, I don't see how this is any different then an Instructor sitting on the right seat of a light twin & loggign PIC while the student logs Dual.
The CARS states that you don't need an FTU to teach Multi & IFR.
In the case of IFR, only 5 hours are required wiht an FTU.

The Americans have been doing this years. The only difference is that their rules permit both pilots to log PIC at the same time! That's crazy!

[Hedley]

I don't see anything in Iceman's scenario
that contravenes any CARs or even the
AIM (remember that you can only be charged
with contravening the CARs, not the AIM. The
AIM, while perhaps interesting reading, is not
a legal document).

Food for thought: read CAR 421.26, which
applies to the issuance of an instrument rating:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#421_46

Not all 40 hours of hood time required for
the initial issuance of an instrument rating needs
to be acquired from an instructor or qualified person.

The 40 hours instrument time shall include a minimum of:

(A) 5 hours of dual instrument flight time acquired from the holder of a flight instructor rating ,

(C) Fifteen (15) hours of dual instrument flight time provided by a qualified person as specified in section 425.21(9);

According to the above, you could get 20 hours of
hood time with a chimpanzee as safety pilot, assuming
the chimpanzee had adequate vision to spot conflicting
traffic.

After the issuance of the instrument rating,
I don't see why Iceman's scenario would
not count towards the 6/6/6 recurrency,
either (after one year).

Years ago, when I showed up for my initial
instrument rating (a group 3, on a Maule,
believe it or not) I got into hot water because
I had logged some of my hood time as PIC.
The safety pilot logged nothing. He was a
former CF-104 test pilot, and really didn't
need to fluff his logbook, which seems to
be the primary objective around here.

Anyways, the Transport Inspector said you
can't log hood time as PIC, so you don't
have the 40 hrs hood time, so you can't
do the ride.

I replied that nothing in the PLH or Air Regs/ANO's
(this was years before the CARs came into force)
said I couldn't.

So, he phoned his boss. Who phoned his
boss. Who said yes, my PIC hood time
counted.

So then we could proceed with the oral and
flight portion of the test.

[Mr. Jones]

Iceman,

Given the following scenario:

Two pilots both have a CPL, M/IFR, 500TT, 50 multi, 10 on type (light twin). Both want to freshen up some of their multi & IFR skills.
During a flight under VMC conditions......the pilot on the left goes under the hood & the one on the right is on the look out & instruting.

Is it not legal, that the pilot on the left seat logs dual while the pilot on the right seat logs PIC.
The CARS states that if he meets the requirements stated above, then he is a qualified Multi/ IFR instructor.

Not quite he is a qualified Multi Instructor but not a qualified Multi-IFR Instructor.

Cars actually state that if you don't have an instructor rating you need 100 Multi PIC to do Multi IFR Instruction.

DIVISION III - PERSONNEL AND AIRCRAFT
425.21 Qualifications of Flight Instructors



(9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence, have an instrument rating and:
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

(a) have a flight instructor rating; or
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

(b) have experience of not less than 500 hours pilot‑in‑command flight time, of which:
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)



Is this not saying for a group 1 (multi-ifr) you must have 100 PIC (since it is part of the 500 PIC) and 10 must be on the same type.

So for the scenario you gave they could only freshen up their multi skills. I think this would be legal, but questionable from the employer's perspective. I can picture the interview "So tell me why did it take 50 hours to freshen up your multi skills when you already had 50 hours?" If the employer doesn't care and the insurance company just states they need 100 Multi but don't specify 100 PIC, I guess you would be O.K. doing this.

I noticed the CARS only mention "flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating " what about flight training for someone with an existing IFR rating that wants to hone their skills? What would the instructor need then?

[THEICEMAN]

flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating " what about flight training for someone with an existing IFR rating that wants to hone their skills? What would the instructor need then?

Good question! I believe this is another gray area of the CARS?