Is a pilots life less valuable than a passengers?

[safetywatch]

Just anticipating an upcoming change in regulations (you can likely guess what is coming) - so if a particular aircraft/flight classification was deemed unsafe for passengers and so was restricted to freight only, does that imply that a pilot's life is not as valuable as a passenger's. I would like to hear peoples views as to why its OK to fly freight, when its not OK to fly passengers. Are we suggesting that there are two classes of human life and that a pilot's is worth less?

[Lurch]

Yes, one life is cheaper then twelve, and those twelve have better lawyers.

[fougapilot]

Safetywatch,

The whole logic behind TCs regulations is to protect the paying passenger since he/she is deemed to have ZERO knowledge of aviation. Just look at the differences in CAR 704 (charter) and CAR 604 (private) both can and have been conducted on the same airplane on the same day. The 704 operation is much more strict in duty days, landing distance... then its 604 counterpart. The logic is that the owner (604) (being the only people (+guests) allowed on board for it to remain private) has working knowledge of the aviation world, has a working relationship with the crew and therefore is in a position to make an educated decision of whether he jumps on board or not. The paying passenger (704)is another story all together. TC automatically level to the bottom and assumes all passengers are totally clueless about airplanes. The think all passengers are 75 year old ladies knitting in the cabin. So they come up with stricter regulation to protect these old ladies.

In your example, I can only conclude that TC believes that the crew are aware of the risks involved and are willing participants. Passengers are not aware of all the risks.

Let me compare it to something else; Racing Formula 1 cars is relatively safe. Doesn't mean we would do it with a bus full of people...

Hope this helps,

F

[Slappy the Squirrel]

Hey fougapilot good answer!!!

[youngtimer]

I certainly agree with fp, but I would add that there are some insurance type suits pushing buttons at TC, as twisted metal, replacable cargo, and one (maybe two) willing participants are significantly cheaper to the insurance company than even one injured/dead passenger with a lawyer.

[paddy]

Are you referring to a particular aircraft?

[Widow]

With respect to lawyers and the insurance costs of a life, you are forgetting that since the pilot is WORKING, the insurance does not pay out ... only the provinicial WCB/OHS does. And ONLY if there are financial dependants. Whether a deceased worker's family accepts compensation from WCB/OHS or not, they cannot sue a negligent employer (or maintenance company, or ANY Canadian employer/working individual - excepting gov't) either. Unless there are non-working passengers on board, the insurance costs for the life/lives, are nil.

Perhaps a reason the pilot's life may be considered less valuable than those of pax.

Also a reason real whistleblower protection needs to be in place before SMS is unleashed on the 703's.

[safetywatch]

Dangerous moral arguments here - so if I willingly agree to take a risk and put my life in jeopardy thats OK. So now we get to the heart of the arguments on other issues - so if I am a young pilot pressured into an unsafe situation that's my problem too. Interestingly society and the courts don't agree with you. As an example if a young woman is sexually assaulted and she was wearing inappropriate clothing, that has never been grounds on which to mount a defence. If a sex trade worker is murdered on the downtown east side the fact that she was a hooker doesn't mean it wasn't murder.

From the sounds of it, the pilots have concluded they are entitled to be treated worse than hookers and gang members - not much of a profession is it!

[Flaps 1 Billion]

What's coming about in terms of changes then???

[Cat Driver]

From the sounds of it, the pilots have concluded they are entitled to be treated worse than hookers and gang members - not much of a profession is it!

The unfortunate truth is in far to many cases pilots think that if they submit to usery they will eventually get that perfect airplane and pay checque.

And the squirrel cage just keeps revolving.

[Doc]

The legs on the squirrel go round and round......

There have been different rules regarding the carriage of freight and passengers since the beginning of time. Example.....the DC3, gross weight with freight, 26,900. With pax, 26,200. Never could figure out why. On one engine, it "barks" at either gross.

For SEIFR, it's only allowed if the pilot has taken "THE" course. Guess this makes him safer? It's a load of crap. But you CAN file with freight without anything more than an in house course and training. Another of TC's bandage fixes.

Then there's the simple matter of what I'll call "perceived pressure". You know, the pressure the pilot puts on himself/herself because he/she "thinks" it matters more if the passengers get there "right now" than the freight.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

I take those references to squirrels personally.

[marktheone]

I think that the method to the madness with that is that the pilots know the risks and are willing to take the chance for the paycheck. Let's not go into the pay scale, thats not the point. The pilot knows full well that he has one engine up front and if it quits he's in trouble. Passengers assume that the engine must be perfect and that the machine is as safe as any other.

It's not different than a logger working as a faller. It's dangerous but it's a risk that you take to earn a living.

I agree. No px in the caravan but it should certainly be used for freight. As an example I'm fully aware of the risk of flying a caravan. If I had to go today though, by myself with freight, I'd go. I am aware of the risk and opt to take the small chance. We cannot protect everyone all the time. Sad but true.

No px but feel free to haul freight. That's my 0.02.

[dashx]

TC....

The think all passengers are 75 year old ladies knitting in the cabin

What the F@#@#@#@#$$$%$%^?????

[pushyboss]

Are 9 passengers less valuable than 10? I can load up a B-99 with 9 people and fill the rest of the airplane up with freight and take off from a short gravel strip.....but if I put 10 people on the flight......

[Four1oh]

I take those references to squirrels personally.

ENOUGH with the singing, already!!