WHY DO I WANT TO GO TO JAZZ ???

[. .]

If Jazz is hiring at 1500-1800hrs now, we're not talking about 10years up north anymore. We're talking about 2-3 years up north. I'm not saying it's right, but being over dramatic about spending a decade in Stony Rapids putting the tents on Navajos isn't the reality we're dealing with now. When Jazz first started hiring almost 3 years ago now, that was the case. Even with this guys with 10 years in there was still a flood of people who were flying the same or larger sized equipment from the left seat. They all left for schedule and removing the bullshit from their life. I'm sorry for all of the new people who never had to experience the real bull shit that's out there. I'm sorry that you think Jazz couldn't be worse. I guess next time you'll do some better research before jumping into something as serious as your career.

What do you think an 1800hr pilot is worth? Are they worth 75k to fly in the right seat of a dash? You look at other companies in Canada that fly dash 8's, what do they pay for the right seat? About the same, sometimes much lower, right? The other companies usually don't have a pension, certainly don't have an amazing collective bargaining agreement, etc etc.

[qwert]

no one is asking for 75K, but at least 50K... so you can at least afford to start wipe your ass and have TIC TACS for dinner... especially if you live in yvr, yyc or yyz... No one in this country should be sitting right seat regional for less than 45-50 k a year. @#$! the US regionals... Cost of living is way more in canada than in the US... and the dont even come close to being taxed as much as we do.

[. .]

no one is asking for 75K, but at least 50K... so you can at least afford to start wipe your ass and have TIC TACS for dinner... especially if you live in yvr, yyc or yyz... No one in this country should be sitting right seat regional for less than 45-50 k a year. @$#! the US regionals... Cost of living is way more in canada than in the US... and the dont even come close to being taxed as much as we do.

Qwert, I believe you'd have to see other salaries move up for something like an increase to 50k happen. Your pay has nothing to do with regional, vs bush flying. It has to do with what others doing the same thing are making. Is there a company out there that pays 50k for the right seat of a dash in Canada? I thought Air Labrador payed somewhere in the 20's. Air Georgian flies into some of the same airports as Jazz and pays about 10k/yr less. Even more so with CMA, they fly the Dornier into the same spots and start at 22k for FOs, with a 20k bond, Air Canada pays The same money and flies larger planes. WestJet starts on even larger planes and don't pay 50k/yr. I think transat is the only one that pays okay to start. The catch there is right off the starting line you're flying a heavy, so they have world wide heavy FO salary to compare themselves to.

I can understand where you're coming from, more money would always be nice. You have to base your desires on some kind of reality though. If you presented a wage increase to your management based on "screw what everyone else is making" I just want more because I fly regional, they're gonna laugh you out of the board room. Jazz is already one of if not the highest pay regional in North America, so perhaps keeping that in mind would help ground your concerns.

[Bede]

I looked at my pay for last year. I made $45K including ensemble (poor-mans profit sharing). plus about 7K in per diems. I just finished my second year. I think that's not too bad. I'm back to what I was making before I left, but with a much better schedule and much better benefits.

[Stinky]

Everyone is focussing on first year pay. You don't make 35k forever. As a matter of fact I made $42k during my first year because of some overtime and will hit close to $50 for my second year. Given the choice I'd rather make $45k at Jazz then bust my ass somewhere else for $60k.

[qwert]

isnt working overtime or as you guys call it WDO frowned upon at jazz. Thats the reason why pay and morale is so low... And flying 18 days a month for 50 k sucks as well. Your right, you dont make 36k a year for ever but after 7 years as an FO you make 55-60 k... and thats a good salary? Its Not.

[merlin]

Does Jazz allow their Pilots to do any contract flying for other companies on their days off? Charters, Instructing, Flight Test....etc.

[. .]

qwert: Did you work in some northern utopia that no one else knows about? My experience up north which spanned 3 different companies and 3 different provinces all involved absolute dog shit working conditions. Pulling 703 min time off with an ops spec to 150hrs/month isn't quality of life. Did I have fun up there, most certainly, but I also realized I couldn't do it for a life time. Maybe you're some die hard bush rat, but most of us would rather be at jazz retiring then flying some beat to shit king air full of chips.

People are leaving en mass to jazz because the sacrifice in pay far out weighs the other other gains. Staying at nice hotels, having a real collective bargaining agreement, not having to clean planes at -40, not having to deice using a piss pack in 30kt winds at 3am.

[qwert]

Well if your happy coming back to a low paying job like jazz after working so hard up north to point where you would rather be dead, than im happy for you. If you were to put all that effort and hard work, like you did up north, (and dont forget the 40k to learn how to fly) into any other industry... you would of been a millionaire with even a better lifestyle and not arguing with me on Avcanada about low paying shitty jobs.

[Go Guns]

if you were to put all that effort and hard work, like you did up north, (and dont forget the 40k to learn how to fly) into any other industry... you would of been a millionaire with even a better lifestyle

If I got into aviation for the money I would be sadly disappointed. Luckily, I didn't. Jazz is, from many accounts, a great place to work. If you don't like it, piss off and go somewhere else. You think you're going to change the mind of the 40 drivers a month they're hiring?

[Flaps 1 Billion]

qwert, a 40G education and a few years of experience would not make you anything close to a millionaire in any other industry.

40 000 is not a lot for an education, or rather a trade.

[AirCon]

The pay is an insult -- how can you justify flying for 36k a year?

ummm...because last year I flew for 23k a year?......

A

[wtf_over]

Does Jazz allow their Pilots to do any contract flying for other companies on their days off? Charters, Instructing, Flight Test....etc.

Mcdisgusting, KFC, Staples, A&W, silver city. And the good news is most gov'ts have raised the minimum wage since the JAZZ employees last worked there while in high school. So the pay increace means they make more at their "seconed job" than they will see at JAZZ.

P.S. Timmy's has a scholarship fund so once you have worked their long enough they will pay for a portion of your education so you can support yourself with only one job

[Stinky]

You guys are missing the big picture. As a hot shot airline pilot you will have plenty of successful women banging on your door. Once your'e a Jazz F/O you stand a good shot of marrying a doctor, architect etc. Women love us.
I don't know any Jazz F/O's who work a second job for crappy pay but I know plenty who are married to successful women. I don't think you'll find that bush in the bush.

[qwert]

[qwert]

if you were to put all that effort and hard work, like you did up north, (and dont forget the 40k to learn how to fly) into any other industry... you would of been a millionaire with even a better lifestyle

If I got into aviation for the money I would be sadly disappointed. Luckily, I didn't. Jazz is, from many accounts, a great place to work. If you don't like it, piss off and go somewhere else. You think you're going to change the mind of the 40 drivers a month they're hiring?

No you got into aviation to work for free and not make a living. Right? The original post was to “WHY DO I WANT TO GO TO JAZZ ???” PAY should be a reason to reconsider. If pay wasn’t and issue this posting would have never existed and there wouldn’t be a mass exodus every week.

[Traf]

qwert, what is the point of your pissin and moanin? Obviously you do not want to fly for Jazz for as many reasons as you can think of. So why is it that you are on here arguing like my wife without Midol? Are you doing a service to those that are not smart enough to make a decision on their own? I don't get it! So you think Jazz pays sh1te! So what. Don't come here. Stay in the bush! If that is what you really want to do, then do it.

I get the feeling that you need to validate your shitty job hauling chips and cleaning reserve "mud" off your seats by bashing Jazz. If you don't have the stones or brains to make a move, i don't see why you have to try and cheapen everyone else's decision.

Suck it up Sally! If you wanna stay in Ft. Shitehole-or-something-another, don't try the old misery loves company trick. The younger guys are smarter than you and are getting out while the getting is good because contrary to popular belief, ALL aviation booms, come to an end sometime.

[Go Guns]

No you got into aviation to work for free and not make a living. Right? The original post was to “WHY DO I WANT TO GO TO JAZZ ???” PAY should be a reason to reconsider. If pay wasn’t and issue this posting would have never existed and there wouldn’t be a mass exodus every week.

What, you think he didn't know the pay when he asked? it's not like he's been living under a rock, he's got 360 posts on Avcanada! d'ya think he might have been looking for other info, not your perpetual, one-tone whine?

[KAG]

All airlines start low for the first year or 2 (you paying off your training), but Ya have to admit waiting 12 years to top out at 58Kish is too low and too long a wait. The upgrade is not less then 5 years for the fellas hired in 05, so that means a hell of a lot longer for those hired now. I only mention upgrade because that’s when the decent pay starts.
Jazz has a lot of perks (sched, travel, hotels, health, and so on) but those generally get overlooked by the politics, never ending 09 talks, and working environment - which can be annoying.
Most getting hired want to fly for either AC or WJ, or somewhere with bigger iron and bigger paychecks overseas.
So Take Jazz for what it is – a stepping stone (that’s how they have seemingly set themselves up as) and try not to get half as bitter as I did.

Seriously get in, get your time and leave. Have some fun in the process.

PS. just as a side thought...what do you think will happen come 2015 when the CPA is up and AC has 90ish EMJ's?

[fasteddie]

So, how far are the folks hired in 2005 away from a Cpt spot? YUL Dash? YYZ Dash?

[bandit1]

Kag,

I totally agree with your views on 2015 when the contract is up.

However, 2015 is a long time away and alot can happen between now and then. For guys looking at Jazz as a stepping stone, there's no problem with that.

For those that would rather haul their pop and chips in a glorified pick up truck in the middle of nowhere, good for you. Someone's gotta do it.

For those of you that think jazz is a bad move career wise, think of this. If you want to fly airline, you're not guaranteed a job with WJ or AC. Alot of guys have been PFO'd. Jazz is the best place to be stuck if you don't get in with a major airline. You have the same working conditions and schedules. There's not much different.

Also, if you think you'd be miserable at Jazz because of the conditions and the job, I hate to break it to ya but you'll be miserable at any other airline too. It's all the same.

[wtf_over]

It's all the same.

you mean 4th and 5th year F.O.s at mainline can't afford to put RRSP's away either.

does every 3rd year F.O. at west jet have a paper route to help cover rent

Jazz is the best place to be stuck if you don't get in with a major airline

so you to can pretend to be a Airline pilot

[qwert]

qwert, what is the point of your pissin and moanin? Obviously you do not want to fly for Jazz for as many reasons as you can think of. So why is it that you are on here arguing like my wife without Midol? Are you doing a service to those that are not smart enough to make a decision on their own? I don't get it! So you think Jazz pays sh1te! So what. Don't come here. Stay in the bush! If that is what you really want to do, then do it.

I get the feeling that you need to validate your shitty job hauling chips and cleaning reserve "mud" off your seats by bashing Jazz. If you don't have the stones or brains to make a move, i don't see why you have to try and cheapen everyone else's decision.

Suck it up Sally! If you wanna stay in Ft. Shitehole-or-something-another, don't try the old misery loves company trick. The younger guys are smarter than you and are getting out while the getting is good because contrary to popular belief, ALL aviation booms, come to an end sometime.

Trust me, even if i wanted to work for Jazz, I couldn't afford it... topping a 50k salary after 7 years is a fucking insult. But who am i to comment...

[JazzJetDriver]

"But who am i to comment... "

Exactly!...so shut to f@#k up.

[Traf]

qwert is not coming to Jazz. Hey guys, things are looking up already here!!!

I guess flying around moose meat and chips for 50k a year is less of an insult. Yes the wages are not great for the locations at Jazz but a good buy on a POS house in YXL is nothing more than a POS in YXL.