Screening of ATC candidates

[yrp]

After reading some of the discussion on ATC screening, and thinking back on the testing I went through last year, I notice that SHL doesn't include a test for memory skills.

How important is having a good short term memory as a controller? If you are, for example, an IFR controller with 25 planes on frequency (which is what the Toronto North guys say might happen at a busy period), would you have the details (call sign, alt, route, etc) for all those planes in your head? Or would you rely on scanning the strips and radar display?

I'm just curious about this. It wouldn't be too hard to add a memory skills test.

[the_professor]

After reading some of the discussion on ATC screening, and thinking back on the testing I went through last year, I notice that SHL doesn't include a test for memory skills.

How important is having a good short term memory as a controller? If you are, for example, an IFR controller with 25 planes on frequency (which is what the Toronto North guys say might happen at a busy period), would you have the details (call sign, alt, route, etc) for all those planes in your head? Or would you rely on scanning the strips and radar display?

I'm just curious about this. It wouldn't be too hard to add a memory skills test.

A good short-term memory is very important.

There are indirect memory tests during the spatial manipulation, the symbol-shifting/swapping section, and the oral section with all the numbers/letters combos. In fact those tests are very similar to the thought process when determining the procedural separation among several aircraft at the same time. I.e. "Ok, I've got standard X between aircraft A and C, standard Y between A and B, and standard Z between B and C."

The process of solving part of the problem and then suspending that answer in memory while solving other parts of the same overall problem are very well tested on the SHL exam.

Regarding keeping track of aircraft, it's a combination of strips, radar scan (if applicable) and memory.

[invertedattitude]

Short term memory is critical.

Not just one particular item either, being able to retain a volume for short term is also very important.

One of the most critical things that bog down new trainees from the start is weather or not they have the ability to handle multiple points of information at the same time, and process it all.

I'm not sure what it's like in Towers, I imagine at least somewhat the same, but IFR you quite often will have one if not two sectors from another centre calling you at the same time, sometimes coupled with one or two aircraft on different freqs at the same time, but you're on the phone with another centre co-ordinating about some procedural traffic problems.

Obviously you're not required to understand 100% what everyone is saying in an instance like that but you must be able to determine at least that someone is calling you, and who is calling you also. This is something that kills trainees when they hit the floor. Since A: It's not tested for in the application process, and B: It's not simulated during pre-OJI training. (Simulator is run by one pilot who acts as all sectors/pilots etc, eliminating the possibility of having multiple points of contact, although they can sometimes have two people, it's still not enough)

[tesox2]

Honestly, I have one of the worst short term memories in history. Im just good at procedures, which generally need to be beat in. I remember by association, one thing indicates the need for another, thats how I work. Reading this, perhaps I do have a decent memory, Im just damn lazy and remember by association so I dont have to work too hard~ HAHA

[Jerricho]

is weather or not they have the ability

Spelling, is not a necessary ability. Tee-hee..........

the ability to handle multiple points of information at the same time, and process it all.

You have identified the task of our jobs that falls under the "PRIORITISING" banner. I've worked with freakshows that have the ability to remember every single phone number they have ever dialed or can recite Pi to a thousand places, yet when you throw "multiple points of information at them", and they don't know where to start. It's like the whole memorising Manops thing. Sure, you may be able to parrot off word for word Manops sections, but application in an operational environment is another matter.

My memory is shite, and as tesox said procedures, triggers and associations are certainly requirements to the job. Recognising which piece of information or task is the most time critical has been the undoing of many a trainee. Some of the SHL tests kinda assess this, but as we've identified nobody has the magic recipe for testing.

[tesox2]

My CPU is a neural net processor. A learning computer.

[Jerricho]

Nerd.........

[wings up]

Just wanted to say thanks to the controllers & FSS folk on here who take their time to help out rookies & new recruits.

Jerricho, tesox, inverted, professor, to name a few… there aren’t a lot of resources out there for us, and your insight is most helpful, not to mention somewhat amusing… really helps us figure things out early on and see what we’re getting into. So thanks!

[invertedattitude]

Spelling, is not a necessary ability. Tee-hee..........

It's a good thing the longest thing I have to spell for our job is 5 letters long at most

[invertedattitude]

Just wanted to say thanks to the controllers & FSS folk on here who take their time to help out rookies & new recruits.

Jerricho, tesox, inverted, professor, to name a few… there aren’t a lot of resources out there for us, and your insight is most helpful, not to mention somewhat amusing… really helps us figure things out early on and see what we’re getting into. So thanks!

I think because all of us know how hard it is to apply, let alone suceed in this profession, many people helped me along my way, so we all try and do the same. I apologize now if I lead you astray

[yrp]

Yes, thanks for the info guys.

So do they really get you to memorize Manops stuff word for word? Or is it more like learning the intent (plus the numbers and stuff) rather than the wording?

[the_professor]

Yes, thanks for the info guys.

So do they really get you to memorize Manops stuff word for word? Or is it more like learning the intent (plus the numbers and stuff) rather than the wording?

Verbatim. Separation of aircraft is not based on, nor satisfied by, "intent".

[wings up]

Memorizing is pointless without comprehension, so I’ll take this to mean that while we certainly need to understand the intent, we definitely do need to memorize it word for word.

On that note… is there any way to get a copy ahead of time? I heed the warnings from earlier threads about reading before having it properly taught… but when it comes to memorizing verbatim, I’d prefer to get that head start.

[scrambled_legs]

Verbatim???

They ask what the rule is and you need to know the answer. Whether or not you say Thou, they, them or the Man sayeth, is irrelevant, as long as you can explain the rule correctly in your answer. If you can recite it verbatim but don't know what it means, you're still *$#(@ed!

Don't get ManUps and memorize it word for word beforehand!!! You'll slit your wrists before you ever make it to class. On the other hand, I don't think its a bad idea to find a copy and read through it trying to learn a few rules beforehand. I did that and when I hit the classroom, I could go "Oh, thats what that means." I thought it was definitely an advantage but be prepared for some very boring legalease.

[yrp]

Verbatim. Separation of aircraft is not based on, nor satisfied by, "intent".

Maybe I wasn't clear here professor - sorry. Obviously you have to know the rules rather than the "gist". I was getting at what scrambled_legs said - the difference between comprehension and knowing the rules and conditions for a particular type of separation for eg versus being able to recite the exact wording.

For example for a VFR pilot, you can know the VFR weather minima (500 from cloud and ground, 1000' ceiling, 1 mile horiz from cloud, etc) without being able to recite the "no person shall operate an aircraft under VFR unless..." language.

I would have thought that the comprehension/knowledge is what you need on the job itself. The exact wording would only matter if they specifically test you on it. If you know the rules, you can usually pick out the correctly worded answer on a multiple choice test - unless they really try to catch you out. Which would surprise me... do they do this? Or are there long answer/verbal tests as well?

[kevenv]

The tests are multiple choice now?

[wings up]

Someone did say in an earlier thread that they are multiple choice. I know Transport Canada ones are always MC. If someone could confirm that would be great!

As for MC questions... if they are anything like the TC exams, then yes - they do try to 'trick' you into the wrong answers with ambiguous wording. I've seen many a flight instructor unable to clarify the correct answer because the wording was so vague. So I'll be paying close attention to the specific wording such as "shall" vs "should" and "must" vs "may", just in case

[the_professor]

Verbatim???

They ask what the rule is and you need to know the answer. Whether or not you say Thou, they, them or the Man sayeth, is irrelevant, as long as you can explain the rule correctly in your answer. If you can recite it verbatim but don't know what it means, you're still *$#(@ed!

I don't know how each ACC is administering the tests now. For your information, during the NCTI days you had to be able to regurgitate the MANOPS verbatim, right down to each comma or semi-colon and Thou, They, and Them inclusive. That was the case for IFR anyway.

And you also needed to understand what the regulation meant.

[the_professor]

Someone did say in an earlier thread that they are multiple choice. I know Transport Canada ones are always MC. If someone could confirm that would be great!

As for MC questions... if they are anything like the TC exams, then yes - they do try to 'trick' you into the wrong answers with ambiguous wording. I've seen many a flight instructor unable to clarify the correct answer because the wording was so vague. So I'll be paying close attention to the specific wording such as "shall" vs "should" and "must" vs "may", just in case

Yes, you'd better pay attention to things like "shall" and "should", because they have completely different meanings in terms of whether compliance is required. They're not just sprinkled randomly among sentences depending on who's writing them.

[the_professor]

Verbatim. Separation of aircraft is not based on, nor satisfied by, "intent".

For example for a VFR pilot, you can know the VFR weather minima (500 from cloud and ground, 1000' ceiling, 1 mile horiz from cloud, etc) without being able to recite the "no person shall operate an aircraft under VFR unless..." language.

In many cases the questions were written in a way that required you to know the lead-in, i.e. "No person shall operate..." as well as the points associated. The amount of memorization was crushing. There is a reason why people inevitably say that the IFR program was the most demanding thing they've ever attempted. It made university look like a joke by comparison.

[Pygmie]

The tests are multiple choice now?

Absolutely not! There is one multiple choice exam near the beginning on the pre-course material, but every single Nav Canada exam you write (until the KVT right before qualification) are either long answer or fill in the blanks. There are NO multiple choice MANOPS exams during the ab-initio course.

You must be able to recite MANOPS verbatim, or damn near. Many a student has failed because of seemingly insignificant mistakes. i.e. on one question a student put accurate instead or adaquate in an answer and it was marked wrong. Same with things like practical/possible (or practicable, a word which you will get to know very well); and/or is another one that kills students.

Be vary weary of anyone who tells you that verbatim is not required. 7 out of the 10 students in my class a few years ago decided that "understading and intent" is good enough, I don't need verbatim. They all failed the exam, and it was on simple little words that got mixed up. Needless to say they all started going verbatim after that. Doing anything else is just asking to be CT'd.

[scrambled_legs]

I gotta disagree. If your reading comprehension skills are up to snuff, you can understand the rule precisely and relay it with completely different wording without changing the meaning at all. Of course if you don't care about understanding the precise meaning, then just memorize the material and recite it verbatim. You'll probably get through the testing course but then when you hit the floor, you'll suddenly have to figure out what it means precisely. I didn't memorize verbatim but many of my answers were probably damn close and I found that I had a lot better understanding as to what the reals really meant.

Professor when did you go through the schooling?

[yrp]

There is one multiple choice exam near the beginning on the pre-course material, but every single Nav Canada exam you write (until the KVT right before qualification) are either long answer or fill in the blanks. There are NO multiple choice MANOPS exams during the ab-initio course.

Okay, that makes sense. I was wondering why they'd bother with the extra work of setting multiple choice tests when there are so few students to mark.

The verbatim thing is very good to know ahead of time. Thanks for the info.

[grimey]

For FSS you need to know the intent only, verbatim isn't required. (This isn't meant as a shot against any of the ATC guys, or the verbatim requirement IFR has. If the guys who are training you say it's required, make sure you do it.)

[FamilyGuy]

I gotta disagree. If your reading comprehension skills are up to snuff, you can understand the rule precisely and relay it with completely different wording without changing the meaning at all.

Right...... In a world dominated by the difference between should and shall and other minutea - go with "close enough"

Free internet advice is worth exactly the price you pay for it.....ZIP.