Lying about time

[Stinky]

If it's a Twin Otter job ask the candidate to put the control locks in. First clue a guy has never been in the left seat of the DHC-6 is watching them fight with the control locks. True story.....

Or not knowing where to plug in their headset, seen that too.

[Cat Driver]

By lying about your time are you not stealing an honest pilots job?

[Pugster]

Liars are douchebags.

Seriously though, why would I want to spend a week-long pairing with a guy or girl that compromised their personal integrity for a job?

I'm sorry, but I've got zero respect for anyone that bullshits to forward their own agenda. There's something pretty cool about working in a crew that looks out for each other and gets a sometimes tough job done through solid teamwork. There's also something pretty dispicable about working with a douchebag that isn't concerned about anyones situation but his own - and has made a choice that is a great representation of why this profession has slid.

Anyone that lies to get a job deserves a kick in the balls...regardless of the job. Sure - nobody is perfect - but it's about drawing that line in the sand and deciding that you aren't going to be the kind of person that crosses it.

[pushyboss]

What Pugster said...

[Cat Driver]

I was brought up in another culture altogether and my mind just can't make this leap.


From here:

The guy was a starving pilot looking for work and so he told a small lie.

To here:

But he was not overall a dishonest untrustworth individual.

The way I see it is if he will steal from his fellow pilots he will steal from his employer.

[Liquid Charlie]

Using hours in the cockpit has to be one of the worst ways to judge how much skill someone has. The military has proven this for years, they have guys with less then a 1000h fly search and rescue missions, land on carrier decks and drop bombs but to fly for the MOH or Forestry you need 1500 plus.

Indeed -- the military is an all together different kettle of fish -- on civie street we learn by experience -- minimum required training -- the military spends more time in class than in an airplane and it's very strictly regimented and coriographed. You certainly could train an 21 year old with 150 hours to fly a 747 and do it well but that's not what the industry is all about.

And as a foot note I have crossed paths with some pretty mediocre military trained pilots as well - sure logged time does not the pilot make -- it's just a measuring stick. -- no Cat -- not that stick

[MrWings]

The way I see it is if he will steal from his fellow pilots he will steal from his employer.

You are overextending yourself on this leap. While it is easy to make the connection on principle, in reality, it sure wasn't there for this guy.

[trey kule]

I think the big thing the "liars" are failing to realize is the insurance aspect of things.
Imagine something terrible happens, a crash for example

Unbelievable. You think that it is only an insurance issue. Let me enlighten you. Rationalize all you want, but if you falsify logbook entries you are a liar and a cheat.. Make no mistake about it. but worse is that anyone who simply thinks that they can fake enteries and it does not have an effect on their abilities is woefully fooling themselves. and if they get away with it, they endanger themselves, their pax, the reputation and the financial viability of the company they are working for.

I see faked log books these days, on almost a routine basis. amazing stuff you would not believe. Pilots logging conquest time (dual) on X-c trips when they dont have an instrument or a multi rating. Pilots claiming time on type and then not knowing the first thing about it.
The story of the twin otter. I have seen so many similar things. And the pilots dont seem to understand why we get mad after paying all their expenses, salaries, and training costs to that time...because...well heck..they needed the job.

And almost without fail, those pilots that lie on logbooks are the same pilots that dont mind adding an extra .1 to each leg..after all it only costs the company money for lost engine reserves, decreased maintenance intervals....but heck...its part of the career path and they really need the time. Not experience....just logbook entries.

[sky's the limit]

So why not go with type specific endorsements like we do in helicopters instead of blanket ones?

If it's not on your license, it ain't in your logbook....

stl

[seniorpumpkin]

Thanks for the "enlightenment" Trey Cool. Gee, under-qualified pilots leading to an accident? Really? I didn't think that could happen! Here I thought the worst possible thing in the world would be getting sued
Otherwise, a good post though.

[MichaelP]

The other thing as far as I'm concern is relevant hours...

The pilot with thousands of hours in airliners monitoring the autopilot and who hasn't flown a light aircraft in a few years is not nearly as experienced as a PPL with 100 hours when it comes to trusting a light aircraft to someone.

In England one day they were flying a bunch of air scouts... One of the few Commercial pilots they could get was an airline pilot with no recent light aircraft experience.
The takeoff roll was long as the Cherokee slithered across the grass and became airborne only when it bounced off the far peritrack (wet grass airfield).
1. Why didn't he reject the takeoff?
2. Why did he have the brakes on in the first place?

These scouts would have been a lot safer flying with current PPL holders rather than out of current airline pilots!

But as illustrated before, a pilot's logbook speaks of that pilot's character and integrity.
You can read character from the handwriting, and truth or lies from what has been written.

[Cat Driver]

You are overextending yourself on this leap. While it is easy to make the connection on principle, in reality, it sure wasn't there for this guy.

The employer required 50 to 100 hours on a 185 your friend told you, seems your friend had zero time on that type, but said he did.

The guy was a bald faced liar...please explain what leap I'm taking with that guy?

[Stinky]

What about when the employer wants you to lie so he can upgrade you because he knows your'e a good pilot.
ex. "My insurance requires 500hrs on type, you need to tell me you have 500 on type wink,wink"

[Cat Driver]

What about when the employer wants you to lie so he can upgrade you because he knows your'e a good pilot.
ex. "My insurance requires 500hrs on type, you need to tell me you have 500 on type wink,wink"

O.K. I'll bite.

Same employer says hey, your a good pilot and even though the airplane is only certified for a 2000 pound pay load I know you can take 3000. wink, wink.

[x-wind]

MichaelP - I'm on the same page. Heard a co-worker say he has well over 10,000 hrs but hasn't logged a thing since 5,000..

On the flip side I like Cat's view regarding Value and Worth in relation to logged time.

I do listen, once in awhile.

[Valcore]

I've bulls&*%ed at least 1000 hours. It's very common. It got me to the airlines. I think you should do it if you can back it up with awesome skillz like me.

[Cat Driver]

If you B.S.'s 1000 hours and the airline accepted it I hope your crew mates find out.

But of course the truth probably is that you are 1000 hours short of 1000.

[Valcore]

They looked at my logbook in the interview. How is it I should bring it up if they didn't catch it. I don't think its that easy to catch people. Worked for me, and I know im not the only one whos flying airlines with bs time in their book.

[Cat Driver]

They looked at my logbook in the interview. How is it I should bring it up if they didn't catch it. I don't think its that easy to catch people. Worked for me, and I know im not the only one whos flying airlines with bs time in their book.

I find your admission to be a sad commentary on how low the industry can get when someone will make such a statement on a public forum, however I have no doubt your ilk exists in the industry.

Where does someone with your values draw the line, do you think that it might be O.K. to take a trip to Thailand and do a few little kids once and a while because there are low lifes who do that too?

Sunwing ...Huh.....

Lets see....company one day finds you falsified your time?????

[Cat Driver]

I'm finding this discussion disturbing, maybe I'm on the wrong side here and only suckers are honest in society today?

[Valcore]

Where does someone with your values draw the line, do you think that it might be O.K. to take a trip to Thailand and do a few little kids once and a while because there are low lifes who do that too?




Well at least I now know where im going to take my vacation this year. Thanks man!

[Go Guns]

At the end of the day, you only have yourself to answer to.

I can say I've never padded my logbook, in fact, it's probably missing a few hours (which I guess is technically just as illegal)

[tired of the ground]

What about making it so that nobody cares about hours. Train the insurance companies and HR people. It comes down to years of RELEVANT experience and CP's/Training Captains to determine if you're safe to occupy a seat up front?

You can say you have 8 million hours but if you can't walk the walk

[Cat Driver]

I can say I've never padded my logbook, in fact, it's probably missing a few hours (which I guess is technically just as illegal)

There is nothing illegal about not logging time in your personal log book Go Guns.

Where it becomes illegal is if you produce a personal log book to apply for a license or a type rating with false entries to make up for the required time.

Same goes for producing a personal log book for the purpose of meeting a minimum time requirement for an employer, that is fraudulent and therefore cause for dismissal in most airlines if it ever comes to light.

The other instance were padding your personal log book can bite you is in an insurance application.

[MichaelP]

Where does someone with your values draw the line, do you think that it might be O.K. to take a trip to Thailand and do a few little kids once and a while because there are low lifes who do that too?

What people here think of Thailand really really annoys me.
You can find all that sort of dirty stuff here in Canada, you don't have to go to Thailand!

Thailand is very different to what the media portray it as.
Sure you can find it's dirty side infested with Europeans and North Americans looking to abuse the poorer people there.
But like Vancouver where people are out in the alleys drugging themselves, such things are in small areas. We wouldn't tarnish Vancouver for its drug use? Most people proudly proclaim it as the Best Place in the World!
The Americans consider Vancouver to be a drug capital of North America, and the locals here resent that.
I never found drug use in the parts of Thailand I went to, but like Vancouver, if you know where they are you don't have to go to.
I resent it when people say such things about a country that is for the most part a lot safer for people than Canada.
Women here are afraid to let their children walk to school, they're afraid to walk alone.
In Thailand children go to school, women can go out without fear, and people from Europe take their families and young children to enjoy safe vacations there.

Well at least I now know where im going to take my vacation this year. Thanks man!

There is a huge campaign by the police in Thailand against the sexual abuse of children so I expect you'd end up in a Thai prison if you think you'll go there to do it with children.

You lie in your logbook, you fancy Thailand for its sex trade, you are not a person I want to know.

Wasn't "Valcore" the luck dragon in Never Ending Story?